Piper's...farewell Rob Bell

[amy]

I returned to read Talbott vs. Piper in, “On Predestination, Reprobation, and the love of God.”

Piper says about discovering that George MacDonald loathed his God…“Can Christian fellowship have any meaning when we view each other’s God like this? I hope some wiser reader than I will write and tell us how we can be brothers in Christ and loathe each other’s God. And if this is impossible, what does it imply for our standng in the church.”

Piper loathes Bell’s God and says he is in love with the God of Jonathan Edwards, that all his biblical studies in seminary led him to love. I guess even early on he did not think it possible for us to be brother/sisters in Christ,if I’m understanding him correctly. A tweet like his to Rob Bell was a long time coming and exemplifies his feelings that we aren’t brothers in Christ.

I have to admit, after reading this paper, I don’t feel like we are brothers (or sisters)in Christ either. Piper’s belief system is too opposite what love is for me.Is it ok if I say farewell John Piper? What kind of relationship, realisticly, are we to have with so many Christians these days that believe this way and probably really do loathe the God of love, prefer the angry God of Jonathan Edwards? Are we not deceived to think we have any fellowship with that?

[AllanS]

If UR is true, we’re certainly brothers in Christ. If Calvinism is true, we’re probably not.

I love that verse in Exodus: “Choose this day whom you will serve, but as for me and my house we will serve the Lord.” There was a pantheon of god-candidates then as there is now. Nothing much has changed.

[Alex_Smith]

I agree strict Calvinists have long rejected any type of universalism. Fortunately, not all Calvinists are strict Calvinists. Apart from the fact that it’s hard to consistently live your life thinking that 90% of people you meet are going to ECT, many people add the idea that God loves everyone and it’s only that people keep pushing Him away that they create their own ECT (similar to C.S. Lewis). I seriously doubt Calvin would’ve approved of this.

I would like to continue to try to convince mainstream Evangelicals of the truth of EU, as that would be way better than starting yet another new denomination.

[pilgrim]

Piper loathes Bell’s God and says he is in love with the God of Jonathan Edwards…

I have to admit, after reading this paper, I don’t feel like we are brothers (or sisters)in Christ either. Piper’s belief system is too opposite what love is for me.Is it ok if I say farewell John Piper? What kind of relationship, realisticly, are we to have with so many Christians these days that believe this way and probably really do loathe the God of love, prefer the angry God of Jonathan Edwards? Are we not deceived to think we have any fellowship with that?

I agree with your sentiments Amy.
I have no problem with Piper declaring that we worship entirely different gods. I think that is true and honest. My problem is why he doesn’t admit the same of all Arminianists who also believe in a God of Love, though one who is impotent against the free will of his creatures.
If he was true to his convictions then surely he should disfellowship with all Arminians, call them heretics and declare that he also loathes their God too.

[URPilgrim]

Piper loathes Bell’s God and says he is in love with the God of Jonathan Edwards…

I have to admit, after reading this paper, I don’t feel like we are brothers (or sisters)in Christ either. Piper’s belief system is too opposite what love is for me.Is it ok if I say farewell John Piper? What kind of relationship, realisticly, are we to have with so many Christians these days that believe this way and probably really do loathe the God of love, prefer the angry God of Jonathan Edwards? Are we not deceived to think we have any fellowship with that?

I agree with your sentiments Amy.
I have no problem with Piper declaring that we worship entirely different gods. I think that is true and honest. My problem is why he doesn’t admit the same of all Arminianists who also believe in a God of Love, though one who is impotent against the free will of his creatures.
If he was true to his convictions then surely he should disfellowship with all Arminians, call them heretics and declare that he also loathes their God too.

EXACTLY!!! Great point

[URPilgrim]

Amy "I returned to read Talbott vs. Piper in, “On Predestination, Reprobation, and the love of God.”

Hey Amy… where is that Talbot vs. Piper found…I can’t seem to find it here.

Do you have a link to that page? Or maybe one of the Mods know. I would like to take a look.

Thanks

[SLJ]

The paper is in this thread:

Reformed Journal

[size=150]“ON PREDESTINATION, REPROBATION AND THE LOVE OF GOD” by Thomas Talbott[/size] evangelicaluniversalist.com/ … nation.pdf Give some thoughts on this exchange between Talbott and Piper.

Sonia

[URPilgrim]

The paper is in this thread:
Reformed Journal

Sonia

Thanks Sonia

[AllanS]

Calvinists believe God will draw his elect by irresistible grace into his Kingdom. Don’t EUers believe that too? Calvinists say the size of that elect is God’s business, and that we must trust him to to the right thing. Again, EUers agree.

[amy]

I was feeling bad about my frustration level with Piper when, in a bible study today, I read Titus 3:1 that we should be ready to do whatever is good, to slander no one, to be peaceable and considerate…That was until I read Galatians 5:12, “As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!” I wasn’t thinking anything quite so drastic for Piper. Paul and Jesus were quite harsh with people that limited God’s grace, but maybe this is different? My dad joked that they might say, “So long John!”

I liked what you were saying Allan S that if Universalism is true we really are brothers/sisters.Calvinists don’t have this in sight so I shouldn’t forget it. Calvinists believe God only has saving love for some and this seems like a huge difference, one to take note of.