Yes, it is an adjective whose antecedent is the plural "κατοχοι "(barriers) and so the adjective must be plural. Here is a translation of the Septuagint:
to the clefts of the mountains; I went down into the earth, whose bars are the everlasting barriers: yet, O Lord my God, let my ruined life be restored.
That is because the Concordant Literal Version is a translation of the Hebrew, and not the Greek Septuagint.
Right. As I indicated, my list contains only “αἰωνιος” the nominative singular, and no other cases or plurals, etc.
Just now, I looked up αἰώνιον. There are 68 occurrences of this form of the word (the accusative singular). Again, I quote from Rotherham who translates the word as “age-abiding”:
Exodus 29:28 so shall it belong to Aaron and to his sons for an age-abiding statute from the sons of Israel, for a heave-offering, it is,—and, a heave-offering, shall it remain, from the sons of Israel out of their peace-offerings, their heave-offering to Yahweh.
Exodus 30:21 so then they shall bathe their hands and their feet and shall not die,—and it shall be to them an age-abiding statute, to him and to his seed to their generations.
Exodus 31:17 between me and the sons of Israel, a sign it is unto times age-abiding,—for in six days, did Yahweh make the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day, he rested, and was refreshed.
Leviticus 6:18 Any male among the sons of Aaron may eat it, an age-abiding statute to your generations from among the altar-flames of Yahweh,—every one that toucheth them shall be hallowed.
Leviticus 7:34 For, the wave-breast and the heave-shoulder, have I taken of the sons of Israel, out of their peace-offerings,—and have given them unto Aaron the priest and unto his sons as an age-abiding statute, from the sons of Israel.
Leviticus 7:36 which Yahweh commanded to give them in the day when he anointed them, from among the sons of Israel,—an age-abiding statute to their generations.
Leviticus 10:9 Wine and strong drink, thou mayest not drink,—thou nor thy sons with thee when ye enter into the tent of meeting, so shall ye not die,—an age-abiding statute to your generations;
Leviticus 10:15 The heave-shoulder and the wave-breast upon the altar-flames of the fat portions, shall they bring in, to wave as a wave-offering, before Yahweh,—so shall they be thine, and thy sons with thee, by an age-abiding statute, As Yahweh hath commanded.
Leviticus 16:29 ¶ And it shall become unto you, a statute age-abiding,—In the seventh month on the tenth of the month, Shall ye humble you souls And, no work, shall ye do, The home-born, Or the sojourner that sojourneth in your midst;
Leviticus 16:31 A sabbath of sacred rest, it is unto you, Therefore shall ye humble your souls, A statute age-abiding.
Leviticus 16:34 So shall this become unto you an age-abiding statute,—to put a propitiatory-covering over the sons of Israel because of all their sins, Once in the year. And he did, As Yahweh commanded Moses.
Leviticus 17:7 so shall they no more offer their sacrifices unto demons after whom they are unchastely going away,—a statute age-abiding, shall this be to them unto their generations.
Leviticus 23:14 And neither bread, nor roasted corn, nor garden-land grain, shall ye eat, until this selfsame day, until ye have brought in the oblation of your God,—an age-abiding statute unto your generations, in all your dwellings.
Leviticus 23:21 And ye shall make proclamation on this self-same day—a holy convocation, shall it be unto you; no laborious work, shall ye do,—an age-abiding statute in all your dwellings, unto your generations.
Leviticus 23:31 No work, shall ye do,—an age-abiding statute to your generations, in all your dwellings.
Leviticus 23:41 So shall ye celebrate it as a festival unto Yahweh, seven days in the year,—a statute age-abiding, to your generations. In the seventh month, shall ye celebrate it;
Leviticus 24:3 Outside the veil of the testimony, in the tent of meeting, shall Aaron order it, from evening until morning, before Yahweh continually,—a statute age-abiding, to your generations.
Leviticus 24:8 Sabbath day by sabbath day, shall he order it before Yahweh continually,—from the sons of Israel as an age-abiding covenant:
Leviticus 24:9 so shall it be for Aaron and for his sons, and they shall eat it in a holy place,—for most holy, shall it be unto him from among the altar-flames of Yahweh, a statute age-abiding.
Numbers 10:8 And, the sons of Aaron the priests, shall blow with the trumpets,—and it shall be unto you for a statute age-abiding, unto your generations.
Numbers 18:8 ¶ And Yahweh spake unto Aaron, I, therefore, lo! I have given unto thee the charge of my heave-offerings,—as to all the hallowed things of the sons of Israel—unto thee, have I given them. as pertaining to the anointing, and unto thy sons. for a statute age-abiding,
Numbers 18:11 This, therefore, shall be thine—the heave-offering of their gift even all the wave-offerings of the sons of Israel, unto thee, have I given them and unto thy sons and unto thy daughters with thee by a statute age-abiding,—every one that is clean in thy house, shall eat it.
Numbers 18:19 all the heave-offerings of the holy things which the sons of Israel shall heave up unto Yahweh, have I given unto thee and unto thy sons and unto thy daughters with thee by a statute age-abiding,—an age-abiding covenant of salt, it is before Yahweh, for thee and for thy seed with thee.
Numbers 18:23 So shall the Levites themselves perform the laborious work of the tent of meeting, and, they, shall bear their iniquity, a statute age-abiding, unto your generations, and in the midst of the sons of Israel, shall they take no inheritance.
Numbers 19:10 Then shall he that gathered up the ashes wash his clothes, and be unclean until the evening,—so shall it be for the sons of Israel and for the sojourner that sojourneth in your midst by a statute age-abiding.
Numbers 19:21 So shall it be unto them for statute age-abiding,—and, he that sprinkleth the water of separation, shall wash his clothes, and he that toucheth the water of separation shall be unclean until the evening;
2 Samuel 23:5 When, not so, was my house with GOD, Then, a covenant age-abiding, he appointed me, Ordered in all things and guarded, Now that it is all my salvation and all my desire, Will he not make it shoot forth?
1 Chronicles 16:17 And confirmed it, unto Jacob, for a statute, unto Israel, as a covenant age-abiding:
Job 22:15 ¶ The path of the ancient time, wilt thou mark, which the men of iniquity trod?
Job 34:17 Shall, the very hater of right, control? Or, the just—the mighty one, wilt thou condemn?
Job 41:4 Will he solemnise a covenant with thee? Wilt thou take him for a life-long servant?
Psalms 78:66 So he smote his adversaries in the rear, Reproach age-abiding, laid he upon them.
Psalms 105:10 And confirmed if unto Jacob for a statute, To Israel, as a covenant age-abiding;
Psalms 112:6 ¶ Surely, unto times age-abiding, shall he not be shaken, In remembrance, age-abiding, shall the righteous one remain;
Isaiah 24:5 Yea the earth itself is profaned under them who dwell therein,—For they have Set aside laws, Gone beyond statute, Broken an age-abiding covenant.
Isaiah 33:14 Terror-stricken in Zion,—are sinners, Shuddering hath seized the impious,—Who among us can sojourn with a fire that devoureth? Who among us can sojourn with burnings age-abiding?
Isaiah 45:17 Israel, hath been delivered by Yahweh, with an age-abiding deliverance,—Ye shall neither turn pale nor he put to shame, unto the ages of futurity,.
Isaiah 54:4 Do not fear for thou shalt not turn pale, Neither feel disgraced for thou shalt not be put to the blush,—For, the shame of thy youth, shalt thou forget, And the reproach of thy widowhood, shalt thou remember no more;
Isaiah 55:3 Incline your ear, and come unto me, Hearken, That your soul, may live,—That I may solemnise for you a covenant age-abiding, The Lovingkindness to David, well-assured.
Isaiah 55:13 Instead of the thorn-bush, shall come up the fir-tree, And instead of the nettle, shall come up the myrtle-tree,—So shall it become unto Yahweh, a Name, A Sign age-abiding, which shall not be cut off.
Isaiah 56:5 That I will give unto them—In my house, And within my walls, A sign and a name, better than sons and daughters,—A name age-abiding, will I give him, which shall not be cut off.
Isaiah 60:15 ¶ Instead of thy being forsaken and hated so that none used to pass through thee, I will make of thee—An excellency age-abiding, The joy of generation after generation.
Isaiah 60:19 Thou shalt no more have the sun, for light by day, neither for brightness, shall the moon, give light unto thee,—But Yahweh shall become thine age-abiding light, And thy God thine adorning:
Isaiah 60:20 No more shall go in, thy sun, Nor thy moon, withdraw itself,—For, Yahweh, will become to thee an age-abiding light, So shall be ended the days of thy mourning.
Isaiah 61:8 For, I, Yahweh, am a lover of justice, Hating plunder, for an ascending-sacrifice, Therefore will I give their reward with faithfulness, And an age-abiding covenant, will I solemnise for them.
Isaiah 63:12 That caused to go at the right hand of Moses his own majestic arm,—Cleaving the waters from before them, To make himself an age-abiding name:
Jeremiah 5:22 Even for me, will ye have no reverence? Enquireth Yahweh, And because of me, will ye not he pained? In that though I placed the sand as a bound to the sea, A decree age-abiding, and it should not pass beyond it,—When they would toss themselves Then should they not prevail, When the waves thereof would roar Then should they not pass beyond it,
Jeremiah 18:16 To make their land a desolation The hissings of age-abiding times,—Every one that passeth by her, shall be astonished and wag his head.
Jeremiah 23:40 and will give unto you reproach age-abiding,—and disgrace age-abiding, which shall not be forgotten.
Jeremiah 25:9 Behold me! sending and fetching all the families of the North, Declareth Yahweh and Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon my servant, And I will bring them in against this land and against its inhabitants, and against all these nations, round about,—And I will devote them to destruction, and make them an astonishment and a hissing, and age-abiding desolations.
Jeremiah 25:12 And it shall some to pass—When the seventy years are fulfilled, I will visit upon the king of Babylon and upon that nation, Declareth Yahweh their iniquity, and upon the land of the Chaldeans,—and I will turn it into age-abiding desolations.
Jeremiah 51:39 When they are heated, I will spread their banquets, And let them drink that they may become uproarious, So shall they sleep an age-abiding sleep and not wake,—Declareth Yahweh.
Ezekiel 16:60 ¶ Therefore will remember my covenant with thee in the days of thy youth,— And will establish for thee a covenant age-abiding.
Ezekiel 26:20 Then will I bring thee down with them that go down into the pit. Unto the people of age-past times And cause thee to dwell in the earth below Among the desolations from age-past times With them that go down into the pit That thou mayest not be dwelt in, Nor yet present thyself in the land of the living.
Ezekiel 35:9 Desolations age-abiding, will I make thee, And thy cities, shall not be inhabited,- shall ye know that I, am Yahweh.
Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks, have been divided concerning thy people and concerning thy holy city—to put an end to the transgression, and fill up the measure of sin, and put a propitiatory-covering over iniquity, and bring in the righteousness of ages, and affix a seal the vision and prophecy, and anoint the holy of holies.
Daniel 12:2 and, many of the sleepers in the dusty ground, shall awake,—these, shall be to age-abiding life, but, those, to reproach, and age-abiding abhorrence;
They mean “lasting.” That which is lasting can last forever—or not.
To find out what a Greek word means, one should look up the word in many writings. Lexicons can be deceiving. Besides with a dozen of more “definitions” how can you know the primary meaning of the word? I find that the dozens of meanings which lexiconophers (newly coined word) produce are usually possible words that may be placed in translations to make sense. It doesn’t really help much to understand the word. I go also by the etymology of the word. I have studied Greek for several years, and my faith in lexicons has been steadily decreasing. I look up the words as they are normally used in the Septuagint (including the apocrypha), and in extra-biblical Greek writings.
The words which have been translated as “eternal punishment” are the Greek words “αἰωνιος κολασις” Let’s consider “κολασις” first. This word was originally used for “prune” as in pruning plants. Plants are pruned by cutting off certain parts so as to correct the growth of the plant. “κολασις” was used in classical Greek in reference to a means to correct an offender. Look at any Greek lexicon, and you will find “correct” is given as one of its meanings.
The word is found only twice in the entire New Testament — Matthew 25:46 in regards to the goats in Jesus’ parable, and I John 4:18 :
“There is no fear in love, but complete love casts out fear. Fear has κολασις. The one who is afraid is not completed in love.”
What could the statement “Fear has punishment” possibly mean? I can understand “Punishment has fear”, but not “Fear has punishment”. Do you know of anyone who has been punished because he is afraid?
However, I CAN understand “Fear has correction”. The context of this statement indicates what the correction is. A state of fear in a person can be corrected when that person is completed in love.
Now usually Matthew 25:46 is brought up in this discussion, where the goats are to be sent into “αἰωνιος κολασις”. If we agree that “κολασις” means “correction”, then what would “eternal correction” mean? If a person were corrected eternally, the correction would never be completed, and thus the person would not be corrected at all!
Fortunately “αἰωνιος” DOES NOT mean “eternal”. Indeed, it never means “eternal”. It is the adjectival form of the noun “αἰων”, which means “age”. So, I suppose we could translate “αἰωνιος” as “agey”, but as far as I know, the latter is not an English word.
The word was used in koine Greek (the Greek spoken from 300 B.C. to 300 A.D.) to refer to anything which is enduring. The word was used by Diodorus Siculus to describe the stone used to build a wall. The word seems to have been used as meaning “lasting” or “durable”.
Josephus in “The Wars of the Jews” book 6, states that Jonathan was condemned to “αἰωνιος” imprisonment. Yet that prison sentence lasted only three years.
But the clincher comes from the Homily of the Epistle of Saint Paul to the Ephesians, written by Chrysostom. He wrote that the kingdom of Satan “is αἰωνιος (agey), in other words it will cease with the present αἰων (age).” So Chrysostum apparently believed that “αἰωνιος” meant exactly the opposite to “eternal”! ---- that is “ lasting” but in this case also “temporary.”
As I see it, the following would be a correct translation of Matthew 25:46
And they [the goats] will go away into lasting correction, but the righteous into lasting life.
Lasting correction is correction which endures. At some point it comes to an end. Lasting life is life which endures. But it just so happens that the lasting life we receive from Christ endures forever. But the idea of “forever” is not inherent in the word “αἰωνιος”.
The true Greek word for “eternal” is “αἰδιος”. That word is found in the following verse:
Ever since the creation of the world his invisible nature, namely, his eternal power and deity, has been clearly perceived in the things that have been made. (Romans 1:20)
Of all the things I have learned from you, Paidion, the translation of “lasting” is the best. Thank you very much. 
There are a couple of other cognates of kolasis in the NT (not counting the LXX), beyond the two mentioned by Paidion, but they don’t help the idea of a never-ending or otherwise hopeless punishment. In one case the disciplinary action is culturally intended to be remedial (synagogue punishment); the other is more ambiguous. (I know at least once place in the LXX where the term is remedial, too.) I’m not where I can look up my notes at the moment, but I wanted to mention it in case someone mentions or wonders whether the term only appears as a noun and if that makes any difference.
Also, {aidios} does show up in the NT in regard to spiritual punishment of rebel angels, namely Jude 6, so could be topically connected back to eonian kolasis at Matt 25 via Jesus paralleling that punishment with being sent into “the fire the eonian” reserved for the devil and his angels.
Paidion might be tacitly thinking, though, that the term isn’t actually ai-dios but the similarly spelled a-idios, a term for invisibility or the unseen (related to hades). Which I’d agree about, based on parallel statements in the Petrine epistles, but then I’m not committed to {aidios} meaning eternity instead of “unseen” or “invisible” in Rom 1:20 either; the nearby context can work either way.
Paidion, I wanted to PM you but it doesn’t look like I’m able to. What books do you recommend for getting a better understanding of the terms translated “forever” and “eternal”? Have you read any of Dr. Ramelli’s books?
Hi qaz,
I wonder why you cannot PM me. Others have successfully done so.
I haven’t read any of Illaria Ramelli’s books, since their price is very high. However, I have read, “Origen, Bardaisan, and the origin of universal salvation.(Critical essay) Harvard Theological Review.” It’s copyrighted, and I forget how I obtained a code to down load it. However, there is a somewhat similar essay by Ramelli that is not copyrighted, and is somewhat similar:
chs.harvard.edu/CHS/article/display/5881
I have studied Hellenistic Greek for several years, and have gotten my information on“αἰωνιος” (lasting) and “αἰδιος” (everlasting) by consulting lexicons and finding out how these words were used in Greek literature. I have not read any books on the subject. I shared a bit about what I discovered concerning “αἰωνιος” in one of my previous posts to this thread.
Much of the following book of hers can be read for free online:
Ilaria Ramelli, The Christian Doctrine of Apokatastasis: A Critical Assessment from the New Testament to Eriugena (Brill, 2013. 890 pp.)
You might eventually be able to read it all for free, since they alternate the pages one can read, from time to time IME.
Alternately, if anyone is interested, there is a site where individual chapters can be downloaded & read online for 30 USD each, whereas to buy a hardcopy of the book is much more expensive at $346, about twice the price, from what i’ve seen.
These works of Ramelli can also be read online, at least in part, for free:
Origen-in-Augustine-a-Paradoxical-Reception
scribd.com/document/2321231 … -Reception
Terms for Eternity: … in Classical and Christian Texts
Ilaria RAMELLI and David KONSTAN
redalyc.org/pdf/591/59120913002.pdf
Evagrius’s Kephalaia Gnostika: A New Translation of the Unreformed Text from …
By Ilaria L.E. Ramelli
books.google.ca/books?id=t47JCg … sa&f=false
Ablution, Initiation, and Baptism: Late Antiquity, Early Judaism, and Early …
Ramelli
books.google.ca/books?id=2_jPGF … sa&f=false
Origen, Eusebius, the Doctrine of Apokatastasis, and Its Relation to Christology
Ilaria Ramelli
chs.harvard.edu/CHS/article/display/5881
scholars directory, w list of publications:
Generally, i’m totally in love with her stuff ;
But i’m no scholar & can’t read Greek, Latin, Hebrew, etc. Her Apok. book doesn’t always translate quotes from these languages into English.
I’ve almost finished chapter 1 of the Apok book & have read an article or two of hers elsewhere, plus bits & pieces of her other writings. Have a lot of her material to get through yet.
Well worth it, though, i think, even for the layman who has an interest in these subjects.
If i were younger i’d learn all these ancient lingos & become a scholar myself. But at my age it’s too late for old dogs to learn new tricks ;
Another suggested worthwhile [free online] read is:
Life Time Entirety. A Study Of Aion In Greek Literature And Philosophy, The Septuagint And Philo
books.google.ca/books?id=l-Smsh … &q&f=false
Author: Helena Maria Keizer
I think Ramelli and or Konstan gave a thumbs up to Keizer’s work above.
It seems so, from her following comment on her book “Terms For Eternity” re a Greek translation of the OT, called the LXX or Septuagint:
“The organization of the material is far from being simply chronological; in our systematic investigation we treat each of the philosophical schools in turn, pointing out, for example, the exceptional use of the terms for eternity in the Platonic tradition, and in the Bible (LXX and comparison with Hebrew background, plus the Greek New Testament), and then the reception of both biblical and philosophical language and concepts in Philo and the Patristic authors – most of whom, as we point out, maintain the terminological distinction found in the Bible, and most rigorously those who supported the doctrine of apokatastasis. We could hardly have done otherwise, beginning with Patristic philosophers without investigating their main sources of inspiration, namely the Bible and the Greek philosophers, who in turn display very different uses of aïdios and aiônios according to their schools.”
bmcreview.org/2009/02/20090251.html
I couldn’t find a free or paid version of it online, but expect to recieve a hard copy of it next week. Though one author speaks a bit on it here:
evangelicaluniversalist.com/foru … m.php?f=64
Her Apok. book also has some references to the OT from the early church writers such as Origen.
BTW a non universalist goes into some OT uses of aion/ios (olam) here:
Evidently the Greek Old Testament (LXX, Septuagint) uses aionios of finite duration:
I have considered the days of old, the years of ancient(aionios) times. (Psa.77:5)
Don’t move the ancient(aionios) boundary stone, which your fathers have set up. (Prov.22:28)
Don’t move the ancient(aionios) boundary stone. Don’t encroach on the fields of the fatherless: (Prov.23:10)
Those from among you will rebuild the ancient(aionios) ruins; You will raise up the age-old(aionios) foundations;… (Isa 58:12a)
Thus says the Lord Yahweh: Because the enemy has said against you, Aha! and, The ancient(aionios) high places are ours in possession; (Ezek.36:2)
Because of thy having an enmity age-during(aionios)… (Ezek.35:5a)
They will rebuild the perpetual(aionios) ruins and restore the places that were desolate; (Isa.61:4a)
I went down to the bottoms of the mountains. The earth barred me in forever(aionios): yet have you brought up my life from the pit, Yahweh my God. (Jonah 2:6)
He beat back His foes; He gave them lasting(aionios) shame. (Psa.78:66)
Will you keep the old(aionios) way, which wicked men have trodden (Job 22:15)
Will it make an agreement with you for you to take it as your slave for life(aionios)? (Job 41:4)
’Will you not fear me?" says The Lord "will you not be cautious in front of my face? The One who appointed the sand to be the boundary to the sea, by perpetual(aionios) decree, that it will not cross over though it will be agitated it is not able and though the waves resound within her yet she will not overstep it. (Jer.5:22)
Their land will be an object of horror and of lasting(aionios) scorn; all who pass by will be appalled and will shake their heads. (Jer.18:16)
Behold I will send, and take all the kindreds of the north, saith the Lord, and Nabuchodonosor the king of Babylon my servant: and I will bring them against this land, and against the inhabitants thereof, and against all the nations that are round about it: and I will destroy them, and make them an astonishment and a hissing, and perpetual(aionios) desolations. (Jer.25:9)
And it shall come to pass, when seventy years are accomplished, that I will punish the king of Babylon, and that nation, saith the LORD, for their iniquity, and the land of the Chaldeans; and I will make it perpetual(aionios) desolations. (Jer.25:12)
In their heat I will make their feasts, and I will make them drunken, that they may rejoice, and sleep a perpetual(aionios) sleep, and not wake, saith the LORD. (Jer.51:39)
When I shall bring thee down with them that descend into the pit, with the people of old time, and shall set thee in the low parts of the earth, in places desolate of old(aionios), with them that go down to the pit, that thou be not inhabited; and I shall set glory in the land of the living; (Ezek.26:20)
I will make you a perpetual(aionios) desolation, and your cities shall not be inhabited; and you shall know that I am Yahweh. (Ezek.35:9)
From those sleeping in the soil of the ground many shall awake, these to eonian(aionios) life and these to reproach for eonian(aionios) repulsion. (Daniel 12:2)
Thus says Yahweh, “Stand in the ways and see, and ask for the old(aionios) paths, ‘Where is the good way?’ and walk in it, and you will find rest for your souls. But they said, ‘We will not walk in it.’ (Jer.6:16)
For my people have forgotten me, they have burned incense to false gods; and they have been made to stumble in their ways, in the ancient(aionios) paths, to walk in byways, in a way not built up; (Jer.18:15)
Then he remembered the days of old(aionios), Moses and his people, saying, Where is he who brought them up out of the sea with the shepherds of his flock?where is he who put his holy Spirit in the midst of them? (Isa.63:11)
tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf
“…it doesn’t say what most evangelizers of hopelessness want it to say in that regard either.”
“It is false, he maintained, to translate that phrase as “everlasting punishment,” introducing into the New Testament the concept found in the Islamic Quran that God is going to torture the wicked forever.”
These translations of the LXX render aionios as “God” & “the Everlasting” (One):
Behold, I will answer you. In this you are not just, for God(aionios) is greater than man. (Job 33:12)
For I saw the captivity of my sons and daughters, which the Everlasting(aionios) brought upon them. (Bar.4:10)
For my hope is in the Everlasting, that he will save you; and joy has come to me from the Holy One, because of the mercy which shall soon come to you from the Everlasting(aionios) our Savior. (Bar.4:22)
Just as now the neighbors of Zion have seen your captivity, so shall they soon see your salvation from our God, which shall come upon you with the great glory and brightness of the Everlasting(aionios). (Bar.4:24)
Cast around you a double garment of the righteousness which comes from God, and set a diadem on your head of the glory of the Everlasting(aionios). (Bar.5:2)
It recalls comments i read recently by Jason Pratt. Also Tom Talbott referring to the aionion punishment in Mt.25:46 as being God’s punishment.
Substituting God & the Everlasting for aionios in Mt.25:46 & it reads:
“And these shall go away into God’s punishment: but the righteous into God’s life.”
“And these shall go away into the Everlasting (One’s) punishment: but the righteous into the Everlasting (One’s) life.”
Another interesting translation from the LXX is:
For fire shall come upon her[Jerusalem] from the Everlasting(aionios), long to endure, and she shall be inhabited by devils for a great time. (Bar.4:35) apocrypha.org/baruch/4-35.htm
Here we have an aionios punishment by fire that is not endless, but “long to endure”. It has similarities to Mt.25:41,46.
I’m looking for a literal word for word English translation of the LXX. Does such exist?
In particular ATM this verse, Ezek 28:19:
καὶ πάντες οἱ ἐπιστάμενοί σε ἐν τοῖς ἔθνεσιν στυγνάσουσιν ἐπὶ σέ ἀπώλεια ἐγένου καὶ οὐχ ὑπάρξεις ἔτι εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα
19 And all that know thee among the nations shall groan over thee: thou art gone to destruction, and thou shalt not exist any more. (Brenton Septuagint Translation)
19 All knowing you among the peoples Have been astonished at you, Wastes you have been, and you are not–to the eon.’ (CLV)
Though the CLV is not a translation of the LXX, the last 3 words [to the eon] seem to be a correct translation of εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα above.
into the eon (age) is the literal rendering, and “any more” (as per Brenton) OR “any longer” (as per Van der Pool) is what that would have been understood to mean.
Why would the Brenton or Van der Pool translations be the correct understanding of “into the eon”?
I know that’s a common way for translators to render “εις τον αιωνα” (into the age), but I can’t makes sense of Jesus’ words as recorded by John, chapter 11, verses 25 and 26 when translated like that.
Many translators translate it as the ESV, but if that were a correct translation wouldn’t Jesus’ two sentence be inconsistent? If someone believes in Him and dies, he will live again. But any one lives, believing in Him will never die. So if any living person who believes in Him will never die, how could it be that some who believed in Him DID die? (though they will live again).
Young’s Literal Translation translates it literally. Really literally it would read, “everyone who lives and believes in me shall no way die into the age.”
I wonder if the sentence should actually be translated like this:
He will not “die into the age” because he will be raised to life before the age.
Mainly because that seems to be its most general rendering across the bulk of passages where that phrase is used.
Literal doesn’t always trump as king… the phrase though bedded in obvious literal origins (it has to, to carry any semblance of sense) can have associated meanings attached according to context. Broadly speaking into the eon carries a sense of TOTALITY, e.g., when someone says… “our love is eternal” or “I love you forever” we understand both eternal and forever as expressions of TOTALITY with regards to which such forever-ness or eternal-ness is attached. IOW the emphasis is qualitative in understanding more than quantitative.
That at least is how I understand it.
I suppose those who accept the ESV translation could understand the word “die” in two different senses, physical & spiritual, in the two occurrences of the scripture you quoted.
The translation of “the age” as “remain” is one i haven’t seen before.
The CLV has:
“I am the Resurrection and the Life. He who is believing in Me, even if he should be dying, shall be living. 26 And everyone who is living and believing in Me, should by no means be dying for the eon. Are you believing this?”
The CLV concordance in the CLNT says EIS “into” is rendered idiomatically as “for” in relation to time in the CLV.
Not “dying for the eon” could refer to the post resurrection eon of the kingdom of the Messiah that the Jews were awaiting. This could correspond to the millennium in another of John’s writings, the book of Revelation. In some ancient Jewish literature there are references to a temporary Messianic kingdom age before the final age.