The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Poll: Are you a Trinitarian?

He was called Emmanuel “God with us” among other things. :wink:

i said i’m fairly sure. but i reserve the right to become less or more sure as i feel God leads me. but this to me is not a doctrine worth arguing over. talking about it politely and respectfully, yes, but given how bloody some doctrinal battles in the past have been over doctrinal issues, i can’t believe God requires us to be “right” at the expense of another person’s life or even self-esteem.
i have heard very good arguments for and against Trinitarianism. thankfully the issues i consider core (such as UR) do not hang on this one issue, though i can respect the importance it has for others.

I’m also definitely Trinitarian. I could go into a long explanation, but I don’t think I’d say anything I haven’t already said (or others haven’t said far better), so I’ll refrain. I don’t feel it necessary to persuade anyone else they’re wrong on this, and I figure if God is worried about it, He can do the convincing. :wink:

Fascinating! I’m new here, and I was under the impression that I would quickly connect with like-minded folks pretty much across the board because of the universal reconciliation perspective we share, only to discover, upon having voted “definitely not Trinitarian” (and my Assembly of God pastor & dad would probably writhe in agony for more than a mere moment if he were still among us in this shadowy earthly sphere), that I am in the minority. Lo and behold, I like a challenge, and I fail to see why being in the minority in this regard should hinder my participation. On the contrary, this might actually prove to be an enjoyable undertaking (preferably not by an undertaker).

Why do I get the feeling that I’m also in the minority politically? Hmmm… :slight_smile:


I’m still searching, so I said “I’m really unsure either way”. But I am closer to Trinitarianism than I’ve ever been. But I’m not entirely done tossing out modalism, I’m still quite interested in binatarianism and I really need to think about Paidon’s view some more… :ugeek:

Undecided. Check out my thread here for some explanation as to why. :slight_smile:

Grace and peace to you all :slight_smile:


As far as I know, there’s no intrinsic reason why one’s stance on Trinitarianism should hinder fellowship among followers of Christ. :sunglasses:


Paul does touch on this subject a tad bit.

2 Thess 3:6;14-15.

3:6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.

3:14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.

3:15 Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.

you missed some verses out there, as they conveniently indicate something other than what is being discussed here. specifically, being divisive and disruptive, and taking advantage of hospitality and generosity. how does this have anything to do with the Trinity?

I’m currently undecided. Jesus very frequently relegates what he does back onto the Father. Especially with statements like “nobody is good but God alone”. The “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was God” etc., doesn’t quite convince me. John 5:3-4 is a potential interpolation, which further makes me suspicious.

Right now I prefer to stay on the side of caution. I believe God is, well, God, and you can worship him even without Jesus. I believe Jesus is the Son of God, and represents God so well that Jesus’s character reflects on God’s character. Jesus said that as long as you say he’s the Son of God, it is recognized. There are some passages where Jesus is worshiped, but I’m not sure if Jesus approved of that. And I have no idea how to glue the Holy Spirit in all this. I perceive the Holy Spirit as God’s panentheistic essence.

Yeah, I don’t even know. I am, honestly, not concerned with this topic too much. God is love!

I’m having a little trouble seeing how John 5:3-4 probably being an interpolation relates to Trinitarianism. Can you clarify?

Err, sorry, I confused it with some other interpolation. I meant this one:

1 John 5:7–8

7 “For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.”

The phrase Son of God represents Jesus’ deity. The Holy Spirit is our comforter, teacher and the 3rd person of the Godhead. Which makes him God. :smiley:

Son of God is a very widespread phrase throughout the Old Testament that usually seems to mean “angel” or something.

Where does the Bible say the Holy Spirit is the 3rd person of the Godhead? Can’t it simply be a tool of God?

Me too on priority but on following this debate on the Trinity, though no theologian or teacher myself, a question came to me " Did the Trinity begin with the baptism of Jesus Christ and was the Trinity concluded in its fullness on joining His Father, thereby from that moment the Holy Spirit was enabled to fulfill Christ’s promise of the Comforter.

If this has already been answered or debated on the Forum I’d be thankful to have the reference.

Happy New Year to all.

Michael in Barcelona

The pre-existence of the Son (and the Son’s pre-divinity, and the Son’s pre-divinity as God Most High–the topics are not all automatically equivalent) has been discussed a lot on the forum of course, pro and con; but I suppose you’re asking about the pre-existent Most High Divinity of the Spirit.

The scriptures don’t have a lot to say about this, in a fashion that distinguishes the Spirit personally from the Father and the Son. By which I mean, there is quite enough talk about “the Spirit of God” being obviously God Most High, but not much in a way that distinguishes the person of the Spirit from another Person of God while doing so (i.e. it could easily be just a euphamism for the Father). On the other hand there are a good handful of scriptures indicating the Spirit being spoken of in personal distinction from the Father and/or the Son, including in contexts involving religious worship, but the specific identification with YHWH is usually only implied at most in such cases. (i.e. we’re only supposed to be talking about God Most High when talking in such a way, and yet here we are talking about the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Therefore either it’s okay to talk about entities less than God Most High in such ways after all, or the HS, and the Son for that matter, are as much God Most High somehow as the Father.)

Several years ago I posted as much as I could find about the characteristics of the Spirit as part of the first edition of my Trinitarian Digest. Frankly, I don’t think this thread should be devoted so much to arguments on this or related topics, as to allowing members to vote (and somewhat report, if they wish) where they currently stand. But I’ll append the current version of the Digest–it features some corrections and additions since my first edition (and still could easily be substantially expanded. If you’ll pardon the ‘substantial’ pun there. :wink: ) I’ll also append the current version of my reply to various critiques of ortho-trin based on scriptural appeals (some of which are pretty sophisticated, some of which are rather inane, but all of which I’ve seen on this forum and elsewhere), which I originally posted at about the same time as the Digest.

There are times when the Spirit of God is treated as being a personal entity (not merely an impersonal tool); and those especially include most or all the times when something called the Holy Spirit is referenced in distinction as such along with the Father and the Son. (Including the couple of times that the OT talks about either three YHWHs at once (in one case) or Father Son and Spirit (in another case).) Details in the attached Digest.

So, no, the HS cannot only be simply a tool of God.
JRP vs scriptural crits vs ortho trin.pdf (384 KB)
Trinitarian Digest.pdf (273 KB)

Heh. I saw what you did there. :wink: Nicely ironic.

Many thanks Jason for your very informative reply and I have just read the introduction to your Trinitarian Digest. I shall read this with great interest and thank you for kindly sending it.

Michael in Barcelona

Well, this seems as good a place as any to make my introduction to the group. I put in that I am unsure. I used to be a dogmatic Trinitarian, but the more I learn the less I feel I have a sure grasp on. All I truly KNOW for sure is that Jesus is Lord and Savior and that of the entire world, and that the Father has a plan that will be thwarted by no one.

And on that note, hi all. Looks like a great place. My name is L. Curtis and I am a heretic.

Thanks for such a great place to come to and speak about the One who holds it all together.

Welcome LCurtis :slight_smile: Leonard, right, from Facebook? :wink: Maybe you could write an intro, maybe even share your story, here: viewforum.php?f=32

Just click on post new topic, and you should be able to figure it from there. :slight_smile:

Blessings to you