His humanity needed sleep prior to glorification. The immutable Logos does not sleep.
I’m not sure I understand…
You want a Savior but only if we live in accordance with what the savior wants from us. SILLY.
I personally accepted non Trinitarian theology
Long before accepting U/R.
JHON 17:1-5.
Jesus Christ prays to [his] God and Father on earth.
MATT:27:46.
Jesus Christ calls out to [his] God in death.
JHON 20:17.
Jesus Christ is ascending to [his] God and Father, which also is [our] God and Father.
Rev 1:6.
Jesus Christ is in heaven with [his] father and God. Jesus Christ has made us a kingdom, priests to [his God] and [Father].
Trinitarian theology clearly contradicts Christ’s very own words. How can Jesus Christ the [son of] God, have a father who is [his] very own God and yet be that very same God himself. Christ prayed to his father and God at JHON 17:1-5. The son calls [his father] the [ONLY TRUE] God. So what God does this make the son in Trinitarian theology ?
Peace.
Jesus is not that very same God , he is the Word of God or an aspect of God as is the Holy Spirit an aspect of God.
I didn’t say “only if we live… etc.” I said that Jesus’ death was for the purpose of enabling grace to overcome wrongdoing and to live righteous lives.
I believe that those who submit to the authority of Christ in their lives are in the process of being saved from wrongdoing, that is from “sin”.
If you don’t believe that we are being saved from sin, then what do you believe we are saved from?
The apostle Peter wrote of “growing up into salvation.” (1 Peter 2:2). If that is not a process, what is it? And of what does it consist?
I thought I answered you? An aspect of God, not Almighty God but a divine aspect of God. As you may know God has various meanings even in scripture.
I tend to believe that Christ was the propitiation of all sin of/for all mankind, Christ’s death was the ultimate place where God allowed a supreme sacrifice to be the ultimate sacrifice to be offered. Don, you gotta agree with this bro, but at the end of the day, my position is that we need to do NOTHING to have said position with God from / through CHRIST, because he has been the Father God’s propitiation.
I know you tend to believe all that. But if salvation is a reality, then we must either be saved from something, or be in the process of being saved from something. You still haven’t stated what that “something” is. Out with it now! What have we been saved from? Or what are we being saved from?
that is a really good question, and to be honest, as my understanding of God and Christ has changed, also my view of salvation has changed. I don’t see God as determining humanity to endless torture, or ultimate destruction just because they don’t do things the way certain ‘MEN’ declare scripture says so. And to be honest you and I are those MEN who try (or tried) to tell others what they need to do… This is a huge understanding of getting away from the conservative evangelical mindset, and important for all who are seeking to a better understanding of who God is and what he is about.
Well… I also don’t believe that “eternal torture” is that from which people are saved. But I think the Scripture clearly teaches that from which were are being saved.
You speak of your “better understanding.” But what is that understanding with respect to salvation?
If there is such a thing as “salvation” then there is something from which to be saved.
You still haven’t suggested what that something is. Is there or is there not something from which to be saved? If there’s not, then there is no salvation. If there is, then you still haven’t told us what it is.
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I never used the term ‘better understanding’
No, you didn’t use the term “better understanding,” but by explaining that your understanding of God and Christ has changed, you imply that your more recent understanding is better than the previous one.
PLEASE answer my question, and tell us what Christ died to save us from!
Christ died to save Israel from the unfortunate happenings that happened at the destruction of his people ALAS 70AD. God’s son simply saved humanity, from the wrath that God had warned of. You may not like it or ignore it or say it never happened but the fact is that history spells out what God wanted done and did.
Every word that you utter in defiance to this reality is a blemish on the son of God’s real reason for being born and chosen, and it is interesting that it is in the Christmas season we are having this conversation. Love and Peace.
So salvation is all about how some Jews could be saved from God’s destruction of Jerusalem by means of the Romans in A.D. 70! His death has no application to anyone who has lived thereafter. We are just sort of left out in Limbo. Or maybe we’re all going to be okay in the afterlife automatically with no need for Christ’s death. Or maybe there is no afterlife.
You have no idea of the afterlife, and to say that I proclaim that after we die we are left in limbo is quite a misrepresentation of any thing I may have said. And yes, maybe we all WILL BE QUITE OKAY after we leave this life. Who the hell are you to say any different? I don’t say such… If you want to believe in literal mansions and streets of gold and emeralds and such… Have at it. I tend to see God as a benevolent creator that gives His creation the tools to understand and progress. THAT is the gift.
From all you have written, you don’t seem to indicate that you even believe in an afterlife. You don’t appear to know what we’re saved from. You never say that we’re saved from hell, and you never say that we’re now being saved from sin, or wrongdoing. You seem to think everyone will be in a state of well-being, but where? Here on earth or somewhere in limbo?
Whoever the hell I am, I at least believe in the afterlife as Jesus and the apostles taught it. I don’t relegate all their teachings to somehow be about the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70. That view seems to be a way to exclude us from all responsibility for living a righteous life and being in the process of being saved from sinning. I trust you will consider their teachings as possibly being universal and being applicable to you in the year A.D. 2020.
How dare you say such a thing… I have continually been a vocal advocate for Dr Elizabeth Kubler Ross’s detailed ideas about the afterlife featured in her book ‘On Life After Death’ and have been a staunch supporter of Mr Brennan Manning in his book ‘The Ragamuffin Gospel’. Because I have called you to the carpet year after year on the subject of ‘God’s’ correction, you are pissed.
Don, quit playing politics. You don’t like the way I believe. So be it. Quit lying about my beliefs or place with God. You don’t like the fact that I vigorously challenge many of the stuff you come up with but hey pardner, quit sayin’ stuff that isn’t true.
Still love ya though But gosh, you do hold a grudge.
First of all, what does the historical relevance of what happened in the destruction of Jerusalem (AKA 70 AD) in the first century have to do with anyone living or not living a righteous life in our current place in history? It seems to me that you are saying that if I’m not fearful of a future torture or destruction, that my nature is such that I will ultimately do evil, because everyone who doesn’t believe like you is sinning. And sinning requires correction, and your correction is some mojo idea of kind of torture, but not quite but enough to get our attention. So that at some point we are beaten into believing in your God.
Sorry, not for me.
Your accusations are ludicrous! I deny them all:
- I am not playing politics.
- I never lie.
- I don’t mind at all your “vigorous challenges” provided there is any substance to them.
- I never hold a grudge.
Question: What is the basis of your love for me?
Lets say that you and I (albeit whoever you are) have had many interesting back and fourths on this site, and we really don’t know each other but over time we tend to at some point either realize that the other is real and we may learn something from the other or there is a great deception, which in your case Don, I don’t believe. So I love you like I love all of humanity. Sometimes it is hard, and I would say that you probably say the same thing. Especially when it comes to me 
But having said that, I learn a bunch from you!!!
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