Predestination: Mark Driscoll's forked tongue - part 1

[Username1]

Hello Fiery

Thanks for the clarification. I think I’ve got where you’re coming from now.

Please note that my point was not to agree nor disagree, but to assert that :

1.) Conventional Calvinists (not Calv-Arminians) have what they believe to be good reasons for the concepts of “choice” (but NOT “free-choice”) and “personal culpability” having a meaningful place in their theology …

2.) AND more importantly, to make sure the Jonathan Edwards and Spurgeons and Sprouls and Pipers and sweet garden variety Calvinists down the street (or behind the bushes) get to share equally in the cannon blasts you currently have directed at Driscoll. For they all are believing and usually preaching the same thing (at least in regards to the concepts of “choice” and “culpability”.)

I must admit that in a way I want to take a little of the heat off of Driscoll. I actually kind of respect him more than most because he (like jaxxen BTW) does not shy away from the “dark underbelly” of his theology. Its those that hold to the basic tenants of Calvinism and try to hide or sugarcoat the “dark underbelly” that I really think deserve to be in the crosshairs.

As regards point 1), I hear what you say about Calvinists’ beliefs; I just think they’re wrong. I really do think all their attempts to explain how we can have a measure of ‘choice’ - and hence culpability - in our actions, but yet we are totally depraved and everything we do has been preordained from eternity, are unsuccessful. No amount of metaphysical sleight of hand can make that paradox work. It is, as I have said elsewhere, the Emperor’s New Clothes of theology. The sooner the world at large wakes up, points the finger at the Driscolls and Pipers and Packers and calls them on it, the better.

Regarding point 2), make no mistake, it is Calvinism / Augustinianism that I am implacably opposed to, not Mark Driscoll or any other individual Calvinist. But while ‘Pastor Mark’ does sometimes come right out and admit the ugly ‘truth’ of reprobation, he does indeed often sugarcoat that message in what is basically pure Arminian doublespeak, as I have tried to show.

Matt (jaxxen), who I’ve engaged with a bit already on this board, is a very nice chap, and yes, he is honest about the ‘dark underbelly’ of his theology too. Plus he has very honestly admitted how hard he found it to accept at first. I respect him for his honesty. But again, I just think he’s wrong about what he believes.

Keep up the good work.

Shalom

Johnny