The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Predestined

Studies Poetry
#1

My value isn’t inherent. Only God is intrinsically glorious. Satan wanted to exalt himself and be like God in this respect. It leads to ego and ego is edging God out. As C.S. Lewis has stated:

“The moment you have self at all, there is the possibility of putting yourself first - wanting to be the center- wanting to be God in fact. That was the sin of Satan: and that was the sin he taught the human race”.

In death to self you come into union with Christ. Ego is crucified and deflated. Christ chooses those who the world despises. He chooses the sick, the weak. The ones who need Him. Those who are broken. He came for the sick. Those who admit their need for Him. The powerless. The outsiders.

It Must Be Fate

I know that our union is surely fate
Predestined to be Your soul mate
For I am complete in union with You
A love so pure and a love so true
Forever in this holy love Divine
Your heart beats lovely with mine
Bringing me joy from love’s holy fire
You satisfy my heart’s longing desire

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#2

Tell me, St. Michael. Do you have no self at all?
I say that EVERYONE has “self”— or more accurately IS “self.” The Greek word “ψυχη”, that some translate as “soul” actually means “self.” I read nothing in the New Testament about death to the “ψυχη.”

However, I do read that the OLD “ανθρωπος” (person) was crucified with Christ and replaced with the NEW person—new in Christ Jesus. It is the same self, but a new person with different desires, with a different character, a person who is a servant of Christ.

#3

That pretty much sums it up Paidion! The old self is crucified with Christ. In union with Christ we are clothed in the new SELF.

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The Holy Grail

The scales of justice balance in September
As Michael crushes Satan’s head in death
Ego is cast out, the new self is in union with Christ
Flames of torment destroy the self of the old
I stand on this Holy Mountain of God crucified
Baptized into water, death, and fire, I’m made new
The cup of the Holy Grail infuses precious stones within
As I become drunk on the Beautiful cup of blood
Victory reigns at the core in the Holy land of Eden
In celebration of the marriage with the Lamb
I have fallen madly in love with love

At the cross Satan was defeated in the spirit realm by Michael the archangel. I wasn’t aware that he was a guardian and protector of the Eucharist until after I wrote “The Holy Grail” poem above. For the Christian the “Holy Grail” is the Eucharist or coming into union with Christ. That is, falling in love with agape. Here’s what Mother Mary said in an apparition on September 25 in the 90’s (on my birthday) in Medjugorje. I found this out after I wrote “The Holy Grail” poem above:

Today I invite you to fall in love with Jesus in the most holy sacrament. Adore Him…Jesus will become your friend.

#4

I Am In Love With Love

I am in love with love
love is in love with me
my body fell in love
with my soul
and my soul fell in love
with me
we take turns in loving
we take turns in being loved

Rumi

#5

But the point of my post, was that the self is NOT crucified with Christ. You saw WE “are clothed in the new SELF.” But who is this “WE”? Is it not the self? If our self were crucified we would no longer exist. As the passage affirms it is the old PERSON that is crucified with Christ, and the new person comes forth. At first sight, we might think “self” and “person” is the same thing. However, I think “person” is used figuratively, just as in speech today, when a person changes dramatically, someone will comment, “He is a different person from the one he used to be.” So Paul’s words indicate much the same idea. The disciple of Christ becomes a new person in Christ Jesus. The former self-seeking person is gone forever!—crucified with Christ.

#6

Paidion,

It’s the old sinful self that is crucified. The ego. All sin stems from ego.

I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

#7

Don’t you think the passage from Paul you quoted is figurative language? If Paul had been literally crucified with Christ, he would no longer have existed.

How about yourself? Do you no longer have an ego? Do you never do anything now in order to fulfill your own needs or desires?

#8

Paidion,

Jesus gave us the example:

And no I’m not as perfect as Jesus but I have changed. I have more humility than I use to and I’m going to try for even more.

Objections to Univeralism
#9

Self-consciousness is a heightened sense of self-awareness. It is a preoccupation with oneself, as opposed to the philosophical state of self-awareness, which is the awareness that one exists as an individual being, though the two terms are commonly used interchangeably or synonymously.[1] An unpleasant feeling of self-consciousness may occur when one realizes that one is being watched or observed, the feeling that “everyone is looking” at oneself. Some people are habitually more self-conscious than others. Unpleasant feelings of self-consciousness are sometimes associated with shyness or paranoia.

When feeling self-conscious, one becomes aware of even the smallest of one’s own actions. Such awareness can impair one’s ability to perform complex actions. Adolescence is believed to be a time of heightened self-consciousness. A person with a chronic tendency toward self-consciousness may be shy or introverted.[2]

#10

Here’s the way John Piper puts it in Desiring God:

We look away from ourselves to Him, and only then do the manifold emotions of our heart erupt in worship.

Christian Hedonism is aware that self-consciousness kills joy and therefore kills worship. As soon as you turn your eyes in on yourself and become conscious of experiencing joy, it’s gone. The Christian Hedonist knows that the secret of joy is self-forgetfulness. Yes we go to the art museum for the joy of seeing the paintings. But the counsel of Christian Hedonism is: Set your whole attention on the paintings and not your emotions, or you will ruin the whole experience. Therefore, in worship there must be a radical orientation on God, not ourselves.

Page 95

#11

We turn our focus outward on Christ. When we lose ourselves we find ourselves. In Christ we have eternal significance and worth. Becoming nothing means we lose our self consciousness. Our self-conscious fears and shame disappear when we turn our focus outward into the present moment. Psychologists call it flow, athletes call it being in the zone. Here’s how CS Lewis describes it:

In God you come up against something which is in every respect immeasurably superior to yourself. Unless you know God as that - and, therefore, know yourself as nothing in comparison - you do not know God at all ~~ Mere Christianity, page 124

The real test of being in the presence of God is, that you either forget about yourself all together or see yourself as a small, dirty object. It is better to forget about yourself altogether.
~~ C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity, page 125

We find our true inner self “new self” by turning outward not inward. We despise the demon self and turn away from it towards God. This is repentance. We turn our focused attention off of self and on to God and others. When we lose our selves we find ourselves. Everything balances out. We love God above all else and our neighbor as our self. (true self). This is when we find a proper self esteem. Beholding the glory of Christ we are being transformed into His image from glory to glory. We find our inner self but this isn’t our focus. God is. We are transformed when we concentrate our focus and attention on Christ. Here’s how C.S. Lewis put it:

There are no real personalities anywhere else. Until you have given up your self to Him you will not have a real self. Sameness is to be found most among the most “natural” men, not among those who surrender to Christ. How monotonously alike all the great tyrants and conquerors have been: how gloriously different are the saints. ~~ C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity, page 226

Here Lewis captures the paradox of self-forgetfulness. By turning our focus outwards towards Christ we become our truest selves. We die to self and are resurrected. God wants us to become the creations he intended all along. Valuable, dignified, good, reflections of Christ. We love (take care of) our true self.

When we lose ourselves and turn our focus towards Christ (present moment faith) we fall in love. We become the Bride of Christ as we fall in love with our inner child. When we are lost in the now we fall in love. We take care of ourselves but this isn’t the focus. Christ is.