Proper Self-Hatred

[hollytree]

According to the psychiatrist Alex Lickerman in “Psychology Today” we get out of ourselves by not focusing on the negative in us. This is what I said in the OP. We focus on God and others and this gets us out of ourselves. The focused attention flows outward away from us.

Treating others well, it turns out, is the fastest path to a healthy self-esteem. If you dislike yourself, stop focusing on your negative qualities. We all have negative qualities. There’s nothing special about your negativity, I promise you. Focus instead on caring for others. Because the more you care about others, I guarantee the more in turn you’ll be able to care about yourself. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/happiness-in-world/201008/when-you-dont-yourself

The OP:

God’s hatred and hardening in the Bible is Him simply removing His Gaze (loving influence) off of people. God’s hatred is when He lets people go their own way (separation). It’s non-violent. Hating self is when we turn our focus away from ourselves and let ourselves go. Our focus flows outward away from ourselves. We lose ourselves to find ourselves like people do when they read, dance or color or paint. The focus is moving away from yourself as everything balances out. We love God and or neighbor as ourselves (true self). Focusing on Christ we find our eternal worth, and significance in Him. By beholding His glory we are transformed from glory to glory in His image. This is when we find a healthy self-esteem. Evil is non-existence (nothing). We simply forget about ourselves turning our focus on God and others. As C.S. Lewis puts it:

In God you come up against something which is in every respect immeasurably superior to yourself. Unless you know God as that - and, therefore, know yourself as nothing in comparison - you do not know God at all ~~ Mere Christianity, page 124

The real test of being in the presence of God is, that you either forget about yourself all together or see yourself as a small, dirty object. It is better to forget about yourself altogether.
~~ C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity, page 125

[hollytree]

Proper Self hatred leads to a turning of focused attention off of self and on Christ. This is repentance. Having a changed mind turning away from sin towards Christ.

[Paidion]

Again, here’s the Psychologist Jordan Peterson explaining how he hates that part of himself that could be deeply satisfied as an Auschwitz prison guard. He believes that part of himself is worthy of hate. The best way to overcome it is to recognize it in yourself and constrain it.

Hating “that part of himself” differs from hating himself as a person. I think Jordan means that he hates the evil which was in him. To hate oneself as a person is self-destructive.

The title of the thread is “Proper Self-Hatred.” There is no self-hatred that is proper.

[hollytree]

I’ve already answered you throughout the post. It is self destructive. We die to self. We let the evil self go by turning our focus off of self and on God and others. This gets us out of self. We feed the spirit by turning our focus on God. W don’t feed the evil self. We starve it and let it die. According to the psychiatrist Alex Lickerman in “Psychology Today” we get out of ourselves by not focusing on the negative in us. This is what I said in the OP. We focus on God and others and this gets us out of ourselves. The focused attention flows outward away from us.

Treating others well, it turns out, is the fastest path to a healthy self-esteem. If you dislike yourself, stop focusing on your negative qualities. We all have negative qualities. There’s nothing special about your negativity, I promise you. Focus instead on caring for others. Because the more you care about others, I guarantee the more in turn you’ll be able to care about yourself. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/happiness-in-world/201008/when-you-dont-yourself

The OP:

God’s hatred and hardening in the Bible is Him simply removing His Gaze (loving influence) off of people. God’s hatred is when He lets people go their own way (separation). It’s non-violent. Hating self is when we turn our focus away from ourselves and let ourselves go. Our focus flows outward away from ourselves. We lose ourselves to find ourselves like people do when they read, dance or color or paint. The focus is moving away from yourself as everything balances out. We love God and or neighbor as ourselves (true self). Focusing on Christ we find our eternal worth, and significance in Him. By beholding His glory we are transformed from glory to glory in His image. This is when we find a healthy self-esteem. Evil is non-existence (nothing). We simply forget about ourselves turning our focus on God and others. As C.S. Lewis puts it:

In God you come up against something which is in every respect immeasurably superior to yourself. Unless you know God as that - and, therefore, know yourself as nothing in comparison - you do not know God at all ~~ Mere Christianity, page 124

The real test of being in the presence of God is, that you either forget about yourself all together or see yourself as a small, dirty object. It is better to forget about yourself altogether.
~~ C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity, page 125

[hollytree]

[Paidion]

There is not a word in C.S. Lewis’s writing that promotes self-hatred.

I agree with the following from your OP

We love God and or neighbor as ourselves (true self). Focusing on Christ we find our eternal worth, and significance in Him. By beholding His glory we are transformed from glory to glory in His image. This is when we find a healthy self-esteem.

Healthy self-esteem — good
Unhealthy self-hatred— bad

Again, there is no such thing as “proper” or “healthy” self-hatred. All self-hatred is bad.

[hollytree]

Well, I explained what a proper self hatred is from scripture. We let love be genuine. As it says in Romans, we are to hate evil and cling to the good. Proper Self hatred leads to a turning of focused attention off of self and on Christ. This is repentance. Having a changed mind turning away from sin towards Christ.

[hollytree]

You don’t go by the scriptures. You pick and choose what to believe. You pick this scripture and throw others out.

[Paidion]

None of the scriptures you quoted teach self-hatred. Not one!

In your most recent quote,“Take up your cross and follow me” does not teach self-hatred.
“If you lose your life for My sake, you will find it,” does not teach self-hatred.

Jesus was talking about losing one’s selfish life and finding the joyful life in Christ. He was NOT talking about hating one’s very being. Those who do that tend to destroy their very being, and are useless to Christ or to anyone else, including themselves.

[hollytree]

Well, I explained it to you from other scriptures denying self and putting to death the sinful self is hate. God hates sin and tells us to do likewise.

[hollytree]

And it has worked for millions! Including me! I’ve finally got my focus back. I’ve lost 100 pounds and my anxiety and panic attacks have gone now that I’m not focused on me!

We are to hate evil and we have a sinful self. Once you experience it you know it.

[Paidion]

We are to hate evil and we have a sinful self. Once you experience it you know it.

I have absolutely no problem with hating evil. Nor do I deny having a sinful self. I also fully agree with the passages you just quoted from Romans.

However, you seem to equate these good instructions with hating your very being. Hating evil is not tantamount to hating self (Your self is you)

Deny yourself—yes
Hate what is evil—yes
Hate evil people—no
Hate yourself—no

You have not brought forth a single scripture which advocates self-hatred.

Jesus taught His disciples to love and to pray for those who hated them and persecuted them rather than hating them as it was said by the ancient Hebrews:

“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For He makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the righteous and on the unrighteous.” (Matthew 5:43-45)

If we hated evil people (and not merely their evil deeds), we would never do these good things for them—love them, pray for them, serve them, etc. The same with ourselves. If we hated ourselves we would not do the very things that Jesus taught. We would not attempt to eliminate our evil behaviour and do good. If we hated ourselves we would be glad that we were evil. For we would regard ourselves to be good for nothing!

[hollytree]

Well, I’ve said to hate the sinful self like scripture teaches. It leads to repentance. I’m like George MacDonald. When I hate something I turn from it. He turned with loathing from the God of Jonathan Edwards. He hated what he considered evil. But he didn’t get violent and kill anyone. Well, a proper self hatred is the same. It’s a turning from yourself to God. This is repentance. Repentance is a turning from sin to Christ. It’s a change of mind, The focus is off of self and on Christ. This balances things out where you love God above all and others as yourself. (true self). This is a proper self esteem.

[hollytree]

Here’s Thomas A. Kempis saying the same thing in “The Imitation of Christ”. Next to the Bible, “The Imitation of Christ” is the most read book by humanity. Moreover, Thomas A. Kempis wasn’t mean or violent but humble and loving.

They were strangers to the world, but to God they were dear and intimate friends. In the worlds eyes and in their own they were despised as nothing; but in the eyes of God and His Saints they were beloved and precious indeed. True humility, simple obedience, charity, patience - in fact all the virtues shone forth in them. Page 42

Clearly Kempis believed we find our value and worth in Christ. He’s helped millions. It’s only atheists and heretics that aren’t helped by this. They take what is being said out of context or already have a mental disorder.

[Paidion]

Hollytree, you’re good at quoting Christian writers and the Bible. But you have not yet provided any quote from either those writers or the Bible which instruct us to hate ourselves.

[Robot11]

Well, I explained it to you from other scriptures denying self and putting to death the sinful self is hate. God hates sin and tells us to do likewise.

Anything John Piper = No thanks, hard pass …why anyone would take anything he says seriously is beyond me; the God they follow is foreign.

God IS love, there is no HATE within him. He does not hate, everything he does in done in love like a loving parent. Love is the very nature (or essence) of God.

The hate is a Calvinist mentality from Augustine. God loves but hates also. Loves the elect, hates the reprobate. Two-faced reaction like humans.

Would recommend reading The Inescapable Love of God by Talbott, and less Piper.

Because of my love for God, Christ, my family and myself I work towards not sinning. Hate is not in the equation. If I sin against anyone, I hurt myself and reduce my happiness because I love them.

[hollytree]

Paidion,

I gave the scriptures and quotes. But here’s one that explicitly shows how a proper despising of self leads to repentance. It’s in Job 42. It’s after God questions Job.

Then Job replied to the Lord:

“I know that you can do all things;
no purpose of yours can be thwarted.

You asked, ‘Who is this that obscures my plans without knowledge?’
Surely I spoke of things I did not understand,
things too wonderful for me to know.

“You said, ‘Listen now, and I will speak;
I will question you,
and you shall answer me.’

My ears had heard of you
but now my eyes have seen you.

> Therefore I despise myself
> and repent in dust and ashes.

[Robot11]

Do you “repent in dust and ashes”? Tear your robe and sprinkle dust on your head? Job 2. Shave your head? Job 1.

[hollytree]

No, but I turn from self to Christ. I repent like righteous Job did and millions of others in the world. A proper self hatred is a hatred of the sinful self. We turn from self to God. Just like I don’t watch pornography because I hate it. If I see it I’m disgusted and I turn from it. I don’t feed the sinful self. I starve the evil beast by focusing on the good in the world. Whatever is pure, lovely, good, and beautiful I meditate on. It works! Not only has it worked for me and righteous Job but also for Thomas A. Kempis and millions through out the world.

[hollytree]

A holy hatred leads to repentance. God is holy love. If God is holy love then He must hate evil. Those in hell will eventually repent.