Purgatory seems to be a Catholic teaching, and I’ve assumed that Catholicism has a fair amount of Pagan influence, and I used to assume therefore that Purgatory had a Pagan origin. But the idea of Purgatory seems to fit well the Universalism Reconciliation. So, does anyone know where the Catholics got Purgatory from?
Cheers in advance 
Craggs
Hi Craggs…
Although Catholicism has been variously influenced, the doctrine of “purgatory” as presented by Catholicism is theirs and theirs alone. You are correct however that the purgatorial notion fits well with Universalism as many here will attest to a belief that there is YET STILL MORE abolition of sin, and to some extent an associated degree of suffering in-kind, post mortem. It has been my experience that most Universalists simply use (incorrectly in my opinion) the term “lake of fire” as opposed to “purgatory” and call this process “sanctification”… again. IMO misunderstood and thus misapplied.
Purgatory was a teaching that developed within Catholicism around the tenth century, and by the 15th century was being used by the Pope to raise money. Offerings given by the living in the name of dead family members in purgatory could buy relief or even release(guaranteed salvation). This purchase was called an indulgence.
Pretty good con. 
Abuses of the indulgence system was one of the reasons for Luther’s revolution and was spoken against in the 82nd of his 95 Theses…
“Why does not the pope empty purgatory, for the sake of holy love and of the dire need of the souls that are there, if he redeems an infinite number of souls for the sake of miserable money with which to build a Church? The former reasons would be most just; the latter is most trivial.” [Point 82]
But Luther did believe in purgatory and a fair number of his 95 Theses dealt with it.
I personally began to fellowship in UR in 1979 and I have not heard of the Lake of Fire being taught as sanctification. Not saying that’s not out there somewhere but I don’t think it is pervasive among UR believers. I just don’t see much scripture for a conscious purgatory experience, and I think it does have mostly pagan roots, parallel to all the “realm of the dead” myths of Egyptian, Greek, Roman mythology, having gained acceptance with the gradually increasing fusion of Greco-Roman myths that mutated into Catholicism…
Whether it be “the light/fire of God” i.e., purification/sanctification, isn’t this quote of yours below essentially saying the selfsame thing? right HERE…
Perhaps there is a difference in the way I define sanctification, which I see as a process where imputed righteousness becomes manifest righteousness through the renewing of the Holy Spirit- subsequent to reconciliation/initial salvation, I see it as the process of restoration in the new creation in Christ.
In my view, those who go into the lake of fire have not received the reconciliation, are not yet in the new creation, and are not sanctified there. They are there to be broken. They are there until they “bow the knee” to Christ, and confess their sins- at which time they will be come a part of the new creation in Christ.
I have always seen sanctification as a voluntary process. I see the lake of fire as judgment and correction.
What in the word ‘sanctification’ involves the particular process of imputed righteousness becoming reality? Doesn’t the word mean ‘to make holy’, to set apart and to purify?
I agree that those who go into the lake of fire have not received the reconciliation and are not yet in the new creation. But what is the point of the lake of fire? Is it not to make the wicked holy? In my view that’s exactly what it is. Sure, it is there to break them but to me that is part of the sanctification process - the wicked may have to be destroyed before they can come into life. And the destruction (of evil) is to cleanse and make holy.
I’d agree that sanctification is, in part, a voluntary process. But nobody starts the process other than God. And nobody continues and finishes the process without God. He wants our cooperation of course and we are instructed all through scripture to ‘sanctify ourselves’ and to ‘be holy’. But we cannot do that without God, by His grace, first leading us and helping us. That is not voluntary - God lovingly helps us whether we like it or not. And those who will go into the lake of fire will only bow the knee and confess their sins because God has sanctified them, set them apart and, at least, started the process of making them holy through this judgement. I don’t think judgement/correction can be disconnected from sanctification - in fact ‘correction’ is the pivotal part of sanctification. What else can lead to holiness other than the correcting of evil within a person?
In my view, those who go into the lake of fire have not received the reconciliation, are not yet in the new creation, and are not sanctified there. They are there to be broken. They are there until they “bow the knee” to Christ, and confess their sins- at which time they will be come a part of the new creation in Christ
Sure as it says in Rev 20 that if your name is not found in the book (tree) of life into the LOF you go.
As far as purgatory goes, i think it may be connected to 2nd Macabees where it talks of praying for the dead.
Being made holy(imputed) objective
Being made holy(transformed) subjective
Three words that can be read the same and heard differently, and both “hearings” are true. I am “made holy” by the grace of God and the blood of Jesus Christ, yet, He exhorts me- “Be holy even as I am holy”, speaking of holy conduct from holy attitudes, the result of the manifestation of grace and growth in grace.
At no point can anyone do anything without God, obviously. But I was speaking of the lake of fire, and progressive sanctification being an experience of grace that those within the LOF have not yet partaken of-
But I am not trying to make an issue- I suppose in one sense we could say everything God has done is sanctifying in its ultimate effect. I was speaking more specifically- that I have not heard a common teaching that the lake of fire sanctifies, and that perhaps our application of the word differs.
I think Romans 6 explains sanctification as I am speaking of it.
I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in further lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification. Ro 6:19
Here Paul is speaking of a process of growth in grace that involves voluntary participation resulting in progressive sanctification.
For this is the will of God, your sanctification; that is, that you abstain from sexual immorality;1 Thess 4:3
Again here Paul is speaking of a voluntary process and a specific application of it. The degree to which we experience subjective sanctification turns on the fulcrum of our will, but we are nevertheless objectively holy by the action of Christ on the cross- but not until we have been brought into that grace by yielding to His Lordship.
I am not trying to define words for anyone else- I am just saying what I understand from the scriptures. The verses above illustrate that definition. That kind of sanctification is not available to those who have not yet partaken of the grace of God.
Eaglesway… my initial response to “craggs” was simply to acknowledge as believable Craggs’ statement that “… the idea of Purgatory seems to fit well the Universalism Reconciliation.” This period of post mortem purging that eventually results in one being ready for heaven, as I pointed out, is absolutely in effect NO different than many a Universalist’ understanding of the machinations of ‘the lake of fire’ AND what Jonny95 says below is a perfect example of this observation…
Lot’s to think about in your replies everyone, you’re all way ahead of me! But I was interested to see in Wikipedia on Purgatory - and thanks for that Randy - where it says that: Augustine distinguished between the purifying fire that saves and eternal consuming fire for the unrepentant.
I’m assuming he was relating to the fires of Purgatory. It seems as if Augustine, though he is responsible for giving the church the Eternal Punishment doctrine, was nevertheless making a little room for the idea that some sinners could be saved even though they hadn’t accepted Christ during this lifetime. Was he trying to reconcile with some of his contemporaries teachings of UR?
I’m not sure Augustine did give us the ect doctrine, Craggs. Certainly he contributed greatly to its present enthronement as the sole acceptable eschatology. Tertullian for one, preached ect long before Augustine. As I understand it, at least present day Roman Catholicism sees purgatory as exclusively an accommodation for Christians. A couple of canonical NT sources they likely cite (I would) are Paul’s explanation in 1 Corinthians of how some will be saved “as through fire” if their “good” works are found to be wood hay and stubble. Second, Jesus’ remark that “all sacrifices are salted with salt, and you will all be salted with fire.” The salt purifies the sacrifice, and the fire purifies the believer. Then of course there are the apocryphal references – I don’t know anything about those.