SNIPPETS FROM MY HARD COPY UR LIBRARY


#2185

MY BELIEFS (expanded)

I’m convinced that after we have thought the very best thoughts about God, we can be sure that He is even better than that because He is able to do above what we can even think, Ephesians 3:20. And IMHO I cannot think any higher thoughts than universal transformation.

I believe that after our resurrection from the dead God will eventually somehow transform every second of everyone’s suffering into something better that it happened.
That includes both the unexplained and seemingly unjustifiable suffering that we all experience in varying degrees, as well as what the Bible calls “kolasis aionion” which means age-during corrective chastisement that everyone who needs it will experience.

I believe that God will eventually fit every unique individual into His master plan in a positive way that necessitates their unique temporary involvement in evil and suffering that will enable God to manifest, and glorify, and magnify the many facets of His character in a way that uniquely involves that person, and everyone else involved in that person’s life too.
Then, after God has finished using evil and suffering for the reasons why He allowed them to temporarily exist, He will eradicate them from existence.

I believe that God has both the ability and the intention to save all fallen creatures from everything from which they need to be saved, and He will not fail to do so.

I believe that God’s determination, within the wise counsel of His DECRETIVE will which is that which MUST occur, to eventually rid all of creation from suffering, will in every case, overcome the strongest will that is temporarily opposed to God’s PRECEPTIVE will which is what His creatures OUGHT to do, e.g. THE GOLDEN RULE.

All evil eventually leads to good, however, God is the only One Who can do this. He created evil (Isaiah 45:7), to provide the contrast for good. When all good is revealed, then evil will be abolished from God’s universe—forever.
THE PURPOSE OF EVIL – A.P. Adams (GOOD EXPOSITION)
http://thegloryrd.com:80/apadams/evil.html

I believe the only mistake that I am probably making is in grossly underestimating just how gloriously God will achieve this universal transformation through what Christ accomplished for everyone by His death and resurrection, through the power in the blood of his cross.
That is the kind of God that I see in the Bible.

Realizing that he is including everyone without exception, the following quote by Christian universalist Dr. Leslie Weatherhead nicely sums up what I believe. I’ve had it memorized for many years and love to quote it frequently.

“God’s purposes are so vast and glorious, beyond all guessing now, that when they are achieved and consummated, all our sufferings and sorrows of today, even the agonies that nearly break our faith, the disasters that well nigh overwhelm us, shall, seen from that fair country where God’s age long dreams come true, bulk as little as bulk now the pieces of a broken toy upon a nursery floor, over which, thinking that all our little world was in ruins, we cried ourselves to sleep.”

THE COROLLARY TO MY BELIEFS

For me the corollary to my belief in universal transformation is just as important as the belief itself.
The corollary is that when the chips are down and I am overwhelmed by life’s negatives to the point where I can’t make my wonderful theology work for me in a practical way, yet even that sorry state of affairs is something that God will eventually transform into something better for me that it temporarily prevailed.


#2186

Well said!!


#2187

:grinning:


#2188

MYTHS

“…they will be turning their hearing away from the truth, yet will be turned aside to myths." 2 Tim. 4:4

Scripture: “And if you are loving those loving you, what thanks [grace] is it to you? For sinners also are loving those loving them. And if you should be doing good to those doing good to you, what thanks [grace] is it to you? For sinners also are doing the same. And if you should ever be lending to those from whom you are expecting to get back, what thanks [grace] is it to you? For sinners also are lending to sinners, that they may get back the equivalent. Moreover, be loving your enemies, and be doing good, and be lending, expecting nothing from them, and your wages will be vast in the heavens, and you will be sons of the Most High, for He is kind to the ungrateful and wicked.” Luke 6:32-35.
Myth: “God expects something from us (to exercise our free will) before His grace will be of any benefit to us. God loves His enemies, and will give the most ungrateful and wicked among them the wages of sin (death) forever.”

Scripture: “For to vanity was the creation subjected, not voluntarily, but because of Him Who subjects it, in expectation that the creation itself, also, shall be freed from the slavery of corruption into the glorious freedom of the children of God.” Romans 8:20, 21.
Myth: “Satan and Adam subjected the creation to vanity. The creation will be freed from the slavery of corruption by the Almighty, by granting incorruptibility to a few, and annihilating the rest.”

Scripture: “…Not one is seeking out God. All avoid Him…” “Consequently, then, it is not of him who is willing, nor of him who is racing, but of God, the Merciful." Romans 3:11, 12; 9:16.
Myth: “Seek God and you’ll be saved. Your salvation depends on how you exercise your free will. If you’re lost, it will be your own fault.”

Scripture: “For God locks up all together in stubbornness, that He should be merciful to all.” Romans 11:32
Myth: “It was Lucifer’s doing, and Adam’s. God is merciful to all us humans because He gives us a chance to escape the consequences of their sins.”

Scripture: “and through Him to reconcile all to Him (making peace through the blood of His cross), through Him, whether those on the earth or those in the heavens. And you, being once estranged and enemies in comprehension, by wicked acts, yet now He reconciles" Colossians 1:20, 21.
Myth: “God wishes He could reconcile all the estranged on earth and in the heavens, but He has to have cooperation from those on earth; He can’t do it alone. As for those estranged in the heavens, they’re hopeless.”


#2189

THE NARROW DOOR AND MANY CALLED BUT FEW CHOSEN

The language is entirely confined to the present.
“Lord, are there few that be ‘saved’?” The literal rendering is: “Are those being saved few?” The question relates entirely to the number then, at that time that were entering the narrow door and accepting Christ. Also, many were called to accept Christ through the apostolic preaching of that time period, but few were chosen by way of their acceptance of that call.

What it does not mean is that anyone will suffer eternal torment or be annihilated;
because we know that sooner or later God will have (wants if you like) all men to be saved (1 Timothy 2:4)
It is God’s “pleasure” that all mankind be saved.
And “God is operating all in accord with the counsel of His will” (Ephesians 1:11).

Change it to read “in accord with the counsel of what He wants if you like.
Because God says
“My counsel shall stand.
I will do all my pleasure
(the saving of all mankind is part of the pleasure that God wants)
Yea I have spoken it.
I will also bring it to pass.
I have purposed it.
I will also do it.”
Isaiah 46:10,11

Job 23:13 “But he stands alone, and who can oppose Him?
He does whatever he pleases.
(the saving of all mankind is part of what He wants that pleases Him).

Isaiah 55:11 so is my word that goes out from my mouth:
It will not return to me empty,
but will accomplish what I desire
and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.
(the saving of all mankind is part of all of which God desires or wants)

So we see God does all His pleasure, He does whatever He pleases, and His word accomplishes that which He desires.
His pleasure, that which He desires and pleases Him is what He wants.

His will = What He wants
What does He want?
THE SALVATION OF ALL MANKIND
Why will it happen?
Because God Himself will see to it that it gets done.

Any cooperation towards our salvation is the result, not the cause of God laying hold on us by His saving grace and causing Jesus to be “choice” in our heart, just like it was in the case of Lydia and Saul of Tarsus.

The opinions of exactly how God will achieve universal salvation may differ from UR to UR just like the opinions of ETers also vary from person to person about what the Bible teaches about salvation.


#2190

NOT EVERYONE – Matt. 7:21

If these words were taken literally, then no one at all would enter the kingdom of Heaven because, at least for a period of time EVERYONE doesn’t do the will of the Father.
According to Rom. 3:10-18 EVERYONE starts out in the condition described in those verses.

All that Jesus meant by that statement is that NO UNREPENTANT SINNER will ever enter the kingdom of Heaven.

But we know that a time is coming when there will be no unrepentant sinners left in existence.

We know this because God “will have all men to be saved” (1 Timothy 2:4)
It is God’s “pleasure” that all mankind be saved.
And “God is operating all in accord with the counsel of His will” (Ephesians 1:11).

Change it to read “in accord with the counsel of what He wants” if you like.
Because God says
“My counsel shall stand.
I will do all my pleasure
(the saving of all mankind is part of the pleasure that God wants)
Yea I have spoken it.
I will also bring it to pass.
I have purposed it.
I will also do it.”
Isaiah 46:10,11

Job 23:13 “But He stands alone, and who can oppose Him?
He does whatever he pleases.
(the saving of all mankind is part of what He wants that pleases Him).

Isaiah 55:11 so is my word that goes out from my mouth:
It will not return to me empty,
but will accomplish what I desire
and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.
(the saving of all mankind is part of all of which God desires or wants)

So we see God does all His pleasure, He does whatever He pleases, and His word accomplishes that which He desires.
His pleasure, that which He desires and pleases Him is what He wants.

His will = What He wants
What does He want?
THE SALVATION OF ALL MANKIND
Why will it happen?
Because God Himself will see to it that it gets done.

Just like in the case of Lydia (whose heart the Lord opened, Acts 16:14) and Saul of Tarsus (Acts 9:1-8), our cooperation to be saved is the result, not the cause, of God laying hold on us by His sovereign grace and causing Jesus to be “choice” in our heart.

The timing of the salvation of everyone is under God’s sovereign control.
God arranges everything so each person will be saved according to His perfect timing for each individual.


#2191

NOTHING gives me greater pleasure than to guide people to the reasons why I see an infinitely different God in the Bible than the one I was taught in the several different eternal punishment churches I attended during years gone by and in the Bible school from which I graduated. I’m 79 years old.

CHRIST TRIUMPHANT - Thomas Allin
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/ChristTriumphant.htm

CHRIST TRIUMPHANT - Thomas Allin
http://www.tlchrist.info/filealin.htm


#2192

NOW IS “A” DAY OF SALVATION
(not “the” day of salvation)

http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/today.html


#2193

125 NUTS

In my opinion, this book blows the theological ship of the Calvinists clean out of the water.

A snippet from 125 NUTS FOR CALVINISTS TO CRACK – C.R. Bierbower
(another book in my hard copy UR library)

“Although a Calvinist myself for more than thirty years, the scriptures declaring God’s infinite love, and the plain teachings of Jesus my Lord on the subject of love, mercy and truth, finally sank my theological ship. This left me searching for the truth as it is in Jesus. Finally I was convinced by the overwhelming number of Scriptures that our great God and Heavenly Father truly does, without partiality, love the whole world, and He will in His own time and in His own way finally reconcile all men unto Himself.

Arminianism and Calvinism both represent each other as the method for God’s work in salvation, and both vigorously reject the final reconciliation of all men. It is my purpose in this book to point out to my Calvinistic brethren the inconsistency of their interpretation of Scripture.”

And IMO, C.R. does a very good job of pointing out the inconsistency of the Calvinist interpretation of Scripture.”


#2194

Calvinism, Arminianism, or Christian Biblical Universalism

Which view of salvation is true?

Two good expositions specifically answering that question!

ABSOLUTE ASSURANCE IN JESUS CHRIST – Charles Slagle
http://www.sigler.org/slagle/absolute.htm

THE LAW OF CIRCULARITY – J.Preston Eby
http://www.godfire.net/eby/circularity.html


#2195

OPPOSERS OF CHRISTIAN UNIVERSALISM REFUTED

COMMON ARGUMENTS ADDRESSED
Good news of God’s love for all mankind - find it here at Tentmaker
http://www.tentmaker.org/FAQ/index.html
and
Quick Find: Links to Information on Hell and Universal Salvation
http://www.tentmaker.org/bloglinks.htm

CONSEQUENCES OF ETERNAL TORMENT THEOLOGY
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/hells_fruit.html

BIBLE THREATENINGS EXPLAINED
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/BibleThreateningsExplained.html

THE SCHOLARS CORNER THE CENTER FOR BIBLE STUDIES IN CHRISTIAN UNIVERSALISM
http://www.tentmaker.org/ScholarsCorner.html

UNIVERSAL SALVATION UNIVERSITY
http://richardwaynegarganta.com/universalsalvation.htm


#2196

RESPONSES TO CURRENT CHAMPIONS OF ETERNAL TORMENT THEOLOGY

Don Hewey
http://gtft.org/Library/condon/QuestionsWithoutAnswers.htm
http://www.saviourofall.org/opposers/HeweyOnAion.html
http://www.saviourofall.org/opposers/HeweyCLNTReliableOne.html
http://www.saviourofall.org/opposers/HeweyCLNTReliableTwo.html
http://www.saviourofall.org/opposers/HeweyCLNTReliableThree.html

Eric Landstrom
http://www.saviourofall.org/opposers/Landstrom.html
http://www.saviourofall.org/opposers/Landstrom2.html
http://www.saviourofall.org/opposers/EricLConceptofAion.html
http://www.savior-of-all.com:80/aionian.html

Matt Slick
http://www.saviourofall.org/opposers/Exposing.html

SIX WRITINGS REFUTING MATT SLICK OWNER OF THE CARM WEBSITE


http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/matt_slick_doubletalk.html
http://www.scaredofhell.com/CARMmattslickuniversalismrebuttal.html
http://www.city-data.com/forum/christianity/704708-my-letter-carm-run-matt-slick.html
http://www.saviourofall.org/opposers/Slick1Mt2546.html
http://www.saviourofall.org/opposers/SlickMark328.html

May the Lord point Matt Slick to Jesus so that he may repent and leave behind the ridiculous doctrine of eternal torment that slanders the character of God.
KNOWING THE REAL JESUS
https://www.godfire.net/eby/godislove.html
WILL JESUS TORTURE BILLIONS FOREVER?
It is absurd to say that Jesus would not be doing it !!!
https://www.godfire.net/eby/circularity.html

WHAT JESUS REALLY TAUGHT ABOUT “HELL”
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/jesusteachingonhell.html

http://tentmaker.org/forum/arguments-against-universal-salvation/answering-matt-slick’s-article-against-universalism/msg28882/#msg28882

Tom Logan
http://www.saviourofall.org/opposers/TomLogan1Cor1528.html

Hal Lindsey
http://www.purposeoflife.org.uk/reply.htm

Dwane
http://www.saviourofall.org/opposers/EonLimitGod.html

W. E. Vine
http://www.saviourofall.org/poisonfruitofvine.html

A great fifteen chapter introductory series to ultimate reconciliation.
J. Preston Eby does a thorough job covering many aspects of the topic.
Fundamental reading for any person interested in studying universalism from a solid Biblical perspective.
Highly Recommended!
THE SAVIOR OF THE WORLD SERIES EBY
http://www.godfire.net/eby/saviour_of_the_world.html


#2197

Literally (not interpretively) translated Bibles do not teach eternal separation from God.
Neither do literally translated Bibles teach eternal torment or even annihilation.
But instead literally translated Bible teach universal salvation from everything from which we need to be saved including our stubborn wills.

Bible Translations That Do Not Teach Eternal Torment
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/GatesOfHell.html

GOD’S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME
THE EONS OF THE BIBLE WITH CONCORDANCE
http://www.saviourofall.org/Tracts/Eons2.html


#2198

THE ORIGIN AND HISTORY OF THE DOCTRINE OF ENDLESS PUNISHMENT http://www.tentmaker.org/books/OriginandHistory.html


#2199

OUR HEAVENLY FATHER

According to Jesus, by nature, we are children of the devil (John 8:44).
But over and above that are the words that Jesus spoke to the multitude.
“For One is your Father, Who is in heaven.” (Matt. 23:1&9).

As sinners, by attitude and actions we demonstrate that we are children of the devil.
But by right of creation, and by right of redemption through Jesus Christ, God is the Heavenly Father of everyone, even Satan (Col. 1:20).

For Jesus is the propitiation for our sins, and not for our sins only, but for the sins of the whole kosmos (Greek). (1John 2:2)

Sooner or later, according to His perfect timing for each individual, God will effectively call everyone out of darkness into His marvelous light, first the chosen generation, then all the rest later. (1Peter 2:9; Col. 1:20)

A snippet from THE OUTCOME OF INFINITE GRACE – LOYAL F. HURLEY

Heb. 11:3 should read, “Through faith we understand that the ages were planned by the Word of God.” The ages will collectively end. A literal translation of Heb. 9:26 is, ‘But now, once for all, with a view to the end of the ages, has He been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.’

Throughout the eons there is sin and evil, condemnation and death. At the end of the eons all will be justified (Rom. 5:18,19), and all will be reconciled through Christ’s blood (Col. 1:20).

GOD’S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME
THE EONS OF THE BIBLE WITH CONCORDANCE
http://www.saviourofall.org/Tracts/Eons2.html

I believe that the reconciliation of Satan will be the greatest manifestation of God’s grace in action among the celestials
http://www.godfire.net/eby/reconcilehvns.html


#2200

PAUL

The apostle Paul’s frustration was that, regretfully, he sometimes preferred sinning. The fact that he actually chose sinning demonstrated that, at least momentarily, he preferred it, or he would not have chosen it. It is what we actually do that demonstrates our true preference. We can say we don’t prefer it, but our actions speak louder than words.

Sometimes Paul’s sinful nature was the strongest influence in his life.
Romans 7:14-25 makes it plain that in no way was Paul’s will “free.”

But the Spirit of God taught Paul through experiences that in those times that “the sin that dwelt within him” (v20) preferred sinning; he could then reach out to Jesus for rescue. This God-taught attitude gradually, and no doubt reflexively, became the strongest influence on Paul’s will in his war with his sinful nature.


#2201

“What About how the Bible says that those who do not believe will perish or be destroyed?”
http://www.tentmaker.org/FAQ/perish.htm

Kenneth Larsen and James Coram
“Everlasting destruction” would mean that they cease to exist. However, that terminology wasn’t used by any of the prophets. I didn’t make up universal reconciliation. It has strong Bible support.

Where is a resurrection from the lake of fire taught in the scriptures?
The lake of fire is distinctly defined as the second death (Rev.20:14; 21:8). In it is cast all that is still at enmity with God. So that, death is indeed the last enemy (1 Cor.15:26).
And we are just as decidedly told that Christ is the one who abolishes death and brings life and incorruptibility to light (2 Tim.1:10). The reading “hath abolished” is not true as to fact or as to grammar. It is in the indefinite form (commonly called the aorist tense) simply recording the fact apart from time. Death has not been abolished yet.
How and when it will be abolished is told us in the fifteenth of first Corinthians. It is to be abolished by means of universal vivification (1 Cor.15:22). This takes place at the consummation (1 Cor.15:26).
It is useless to look for plain statements on this subject in parts of the Scriptures whose scope is limited to eonian truth, such as the Revelation. It is unwise to look for it anywhere but in the special portion which deals with this topic. Death and resurrection are exhaustively treated in the fifteen chapter of first Corinthians and there it is we should look for clear statements as to the ultimate goal. There we are distinctly told that the last enemy that shall be abolished is death (which must refer to the lake of fire, for the first death cannot be the last enemy). And there we are told that it is to be done by a universal vivification rather than resurrection.
The term “resurrection” is applied to those who have afterward died again, such as those who suffer the second death. Hence there is not a resurrection, merely, from the lake of fire, but a vivification beyond which there can be no death.
It is also apparent from Col. 1:15-20and many other texts that the lake of fire is not the end of God’s plan for those cast into the fire.


#2202

Questions Without Answers

Many people have a very limited view of God’s plan of salvation and when approached with questions, are unable to give an answer, or, unable to give a correct answer. This can be, first and foremost, attributed to lack of true Bible study. It can be caused by the bias of denominational beliefs, creeds, other individual interpretations, or from relying on other people to answer for them.
But, what does the Bible have to say about the individual Christian being able to give an answer when questioned? 2 Timothy 2:15 says to:
“Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.”
They are told to “Study”, or “be diligent”, as some Bibles have it translated. Why? To be “approved unto God” and so as “not to be ashamed” when questions are asked. How and what are they told to study? By “rightly dividing the word of truth”, which is the Bible.
Next, look at what the Apostle Peter says concerning questions and answers in 1 Peter 3:15.
“But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:”
Within this short verse of Scripture, there are several thoughts that need to be mentioned. These are:

  1. Be READY to give an Answer – be prepared.
  2. Be ready ALWAYS – do not put off a Question.
  3. Be ready always to give an answer – evasion excites suspicion.
  4. Give an answer to EVERY ONE that asks you.
  5. A REASON is asked for – not an assertion.
  6. The answer should be a reason of THE HOPE [not the fear] that is in you.
  7. The Question is to be answered [not in a passion, but] with MEEKNESS toward man, and FILIAL FEAR toward God.
    Below, is a list of 213 questions that will help to clarify God’s plan of salvation as set forth in the Holy Bible, so that when questions are asked, correct answers can be given. To those holding a limited view of God’s plan of salvation, they are truly Questions Without Answers, but, to those who rely on God’s Word, the answers become apparent as His truth is revealed to them.
    The questions were written by A. C. Thomas and appeared in a book by E. H. Lake, entitled “The Key to Truth”.
    Now the Questions:
  8. As we are required to love our enemies, may we not safely infer that God loves His enemies? (Matt. 5:44)
  9. If God loves His enemies, will He punish them more than will be for their good?
  10. Would endless punishment be for the good of any being?
  11. As God loves His friends, if He loves His enemies also, are not all mankind the objects of His love?
  12. If God loves those only who love Him, what better is He than the sinner? (Luke 6:32-33)
  13. As “love thinketh no evil,” can God design the ultimate evil of a single soul? (1 Cor. 13:5)
  14. As “love worketh no ill,” can God inflict, or cause, or allow to be inflicted, an endless ill? (Rom. 13:10)
  15. As we are forbidden to be overcome by evil, can we safely suppose that God will be overcome by evil? (Rom. 12:21)
  16. Would not the infliction of endless punishment prove that God HAD been overcome by evil?
  17. If man does wrong in returning evil for evil, would not God do wrong if He was to do the same?
  18. Would not endless punishment be the return of evil for evil?
  19. As we are commanded “to overcome evil with good,” may we not safely infer that God will do the same? (Rom. 12:21)
  20. Would the infliction of endless punishment be overcoming evil with good?
  21. If God hates the sinner, does the sinner do wrong in hating Him?
  22. Is God a changeable being? (James 1:17)
  23. If God loves His enemies now, will he not always love them?
  24. Is it just for God to be “kind to the evil and unthankful,” in their present life? (Luke 6:35)
  25. Would it be unjust for God to be kind to all men in a future state?
  26. If all men justly deserve endless punishment, will not those who are saved, be saved unjustly?
  27. If God “will by no means clear the guilty,” by what means can just punishment be evaded? (Ex. 34:7)
  28. As no man can measure endless punishment to his neighbor, will endless punishment be measured to him? (Luke 4:38)
  29. Would it be merciful in God to inflict endless punishment? – that is, merciful to the sufferer?
  30. Can that be just which is not merciful?
  31. Do not cruelty and injustice go hand in hand?
  32. Can that be merciful which is not just?
  33. Does divine justice demand the infliction of pain from which mercy recoils?
  34. Does divine mercy require any thing that justice refuses to grant?
  35. If the demands of divine justice are opposed to the requirements of mercy, is not God divided against Himself?
  36. If the requirements of mercy are opposed to the demands of the justice of God, can His kingdom stand? – (Mark 3:24)
  37. If the justice and mercy of God are any way opposed, do they "keep the unity of the spirit in the bonds of peace?’
  38. If justice and mercy are opposed to their requirements can Deity be a just God and a Savior? – (Isaiah 14:21)
  39. If “a God all mercy is a God unjust,” would not a God all justice be a God unmerciful?
  40. Is there any such thing in God as unjust mercy, or unmerciful justice?
  41. Is there any such thing in God as just cruelty, or merciful injustice?
  42. If you had sufficient power would you not deliver all men from sin?
  43. Are you more merciful than the God Who made you?
  44. ‘Can a woman forget her sucking child?’
  45. Is the Creator of human sympathy less benevolent than the creature?
  46. If God WOULD save all men, but CANNOT, is He infinite in power?
  47. If God CAN save all men, but WILL NOT, is He infinite in goodness?
  48. Does God DESIRE the salvation of all men? (1 Tim. 2:3-4)
  49. As God is righteous, must not the desire for universal salvation be a RIGHTEOUS desire?
  50. Is it true, that “the desire of the righteous shall be granted?” – (Prov. 10:24)
  51. Did God design universal salvation when He created man?
  52. Will God carry His original design into execution?
  53. Can finite man frustrate the purposes of the Almighty?
  54. Is every individual under obligation to be thankful for his existence?
  55. Will this obligation eternally continue?
  56. Can any one be thankful for that which, on the whole, is not a blessing?
  57. If any one be rendered endlessly miserable, will he be still under obligation to thank God for existence?
  58. Would endless misery benefit the Almighty, as the INFLICTOR?
  59. Would endless misery benefit the saints, as SPECTATORS?
  60. Would endless misery benefit the sinner, as the SUFFERER?
  61. If endless punishment be the “wages of sin,” could the sinner ever receive payment in full? (Rom. 6:23)
  62. As man is a finite being, can he commit an infinite sin?
  63. If man cannot commit an infinite sin, can he deserve endless punishment?
  64. If one sin be infinite, can a million be any more?
  65. If ONE sin be NOT infinite, can a million of sins amount to an infinite sin?
  66. If sin be infinite, can one sin be greater than the other?
  67. If sin be infinite, can it be true that, “where sin abounded grace did MUCH MORE abound?” --(Rom. 5:20)
  68. If sin be infinite, can it ever be finished or brought to an end?
  69. If ONE sin deserves an eternity of punishment, how much punishment will TEN sins deserve?
  70. Do you ardently DESIRE the salvation of all men?
  71. Is it true that God “openeth his hand and satisfieth the desire of every living thing?” – (Ps. 145:16)
  72. Do you fervently PRAY for the salvation of all men? (1 Tim. 2:1)
  73. Do you pray in FAITH, nothing doubting? (James 1:6)
  74. Are you aware, “that whatsoever is not of faith is sin?” – (Rom 14:23)
  75. Would God require us to pray for all men, and to pray in faith, unless He intends all men should be saved?
  76. If you believe endless misery to be the truth of God, why should you desire and pray that it may prove false?
  77. Can the pleasure of the Almighty be contrary to his determinate will?
  78. Would the infliction of endless misery afford pleasure to the Deity?
  79. Can God be glorified by that which gives Him no pleasure?
  80. As Jesus “tasted death for every man,” can it be true that “the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hands,” if a part are never saved? (Heb. 2:9)
  81. If God “declares the end from the beginning,” can the final destiny of mankind be contrary to His will?
  82. Can endless misery be brought about contrary to the GOOD PLEASURE of the Almighty?
  83. Can God WILL anything contrary to His knowledge?
  84. Did God know when He created man, that a part of His creatures would be endlessly miserable?
  85. If God, when He created, did not know the result of creation, is He infinite in knowledge?
  86. Power is the ability to do: is knowledge simply the ability to know?
  87. If God knew when He created man, that some would be eternally wretched, did He not will this to be their doom?
  88. If God willed the endless misery of a part of His creatures, why is it said that “he will have all men to be saved?” – (1 Tim. 2:4)
  89. If the Scriptures should testify, that God “will have all men to be damned,” could we safely infer that a part might be saved?
  90. If the Scriptures testify, that God “will have all men to be saved,” can we safely infer that a part may be damned?
  91. If God made an endless hell before He created man, did He know there would be any use for it?
  92. If God knew there would be use for an endless hell, must He not have created some men for endless misery?
  93. If God made an endless hell, was it included in the works which He pronounced “very good?” – (Gen. 1:31)
  94. If there be an endless hell, and it was not made before the creation of men, when was it made?
  95. If there be a personal devil, who made him?
  96. Can there be any such thing as sin in heaven?
  97. If there was sin in heaven, many not sin be committed there again?
  98. If an angel of light became a devil, was not Paul in error, when he said Satan is transformed into an angel of light? – (2 Cor 11:14)
  99. As sin presupposes temptation of some sort, who tempted a holy angel to sin?
  100. If an angel could sin without a devil to tempt him, may we not sin without a devil to tempt us?
  101. If a holy angel was tempted to sin by surrounding evil, is heaven a holy place?
  102. If an angel was tempted by evil passions, could he have been holy?
  103. If an angel became a devil by sinning, was Adam’s the original sin?
  104. If Adam became mortal (that is, subject to death,) by sinning, must he not have been created immortal?
  105. If Adam had been created immortal, could he ever have died?
  106. If Adam sinned without inheriting total depravity, why should inborn depravity be assigned as the cause of our sins?
  107. Would there be any more impropriety in imputing MY sins to Adam, than in imputing HIS sins to ME?
  108. If men are totally depraved by nature, must not children be so likewise?
  109. If children be totally depraved, is it true, that “of such is the kingdom of heaven?” – (Mark 10:14)
  110. Men are to be washed from their sins. If they are totally depraved, what is there to wash?
  111. If evil men and seducers “wax worse and worse,” (2 Tim. 3:13), can they be totally depraved at first?
  112. If human reason be “carnal and delusive,” why did Jehovah say, “come now and let us REASON together?” – (Isa. 1:18)
  113. If reason be delusive, why should some folks reason against the use of reason?
  114. Can an effect exist without a cause sufficiently powerful to produce it?
  115. If “we love God because he first loved us,” is it true that we must first love HIM before He will love us?
  116. If “we love God because he first loved us,” is it not plain that He loved US when we did not love HIM?
  117. If God loved US when we did not love HIM, is not our love to Him the EFFECT (and not the CAUSE) of His love to US?
  118. Was it consistent with divine justice, to love us, when we did not love Him?
  119. If God once loved us, will not that love eternally continue?
  120. If the love of God is the cause which produces love in man, can anger and wrath produce the same effect?
  121. Is it the revealed will of God that all men should be saved?
  122. Can God will all men to be saved, knowing that a part will be forever lost?
  123. If God has two wills, why is double-mindedness condemned in the Scriptures?
  124. If God has two wills, why does the Bible say, “He is of one mind?”
  125. If God has a secret will, how did you gain a knowledge of it?
  126. Can that be a secret which has been revealed?
  127. If God revealed His secret will to “the saints,” why should they reveal it to “the wicked?”
  128. If God under any circumstances, wills the endless misery of a human soul, in what does He differ from Satan?
  129. Can Jesus Christ be the Savior of any more than He actually saves?
  130. Can Jesus be “the Savior of the world,” (1 John 4:14), if the world is not saved by him?
  131. Is Christ, in any sense, the Savior of unbelievers?
  132. If Christ be in no sense the Savior of unbelievers, why are unbelievers called upon to believe in Christ as their Savior?
  133. If unbelievers are not called upon to believe in Christ as their Savior, what are they to believe?
  134. Must not the thing to be believed, be true before it is believed?
  135. Must not the thing to be believed continue to be true, whether it be believed or disbelieved?
  136. “What if some did not believe? Shall their unbelief make the faith, [or faithfulness] of God of none effect?” – (Rom. 3:3)
  137. Is it true that “God hath concluded all in unbelief that he might have mercy on all?” – (Rom 9:32)
  138. Can God be “especially the Savior of them who believe,” unless He be actually the Savior of all? – (1 Tim. 4:10)
  139. If belief and good works in this life, be essential to eternal salvation in the next, can infants be saved?
  140. Can the good actions of finite man merit an infinite reward?
  141. Can the evil actions of finite man merit infinite punishment?
  142. If men are saved by works, is salvation of grace?
  143. If one man is saved by grace, why should not all be saved in like manner?
  144. Is God a partial being?
  145. Can the faith of the Partialists be based in the wisdom that is “full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality?” – (James 3:17)
  146. Can sufficient provision be made for the salvation of all men, if some men are never saved?
  147. Must not sufficient provision be sufficient to subdue the will of the creature?
  148. Is there any other way to determine the sufficiency of the means employed, than by the accomplishment of the end designed?
  149. Does not the law of God require all men to love him supremely, and their neighbors as themselves?
  150. Is it true, that “not one jot or tittle of this law shall pass till all be fulfilled?” – (Matt. 5:18)
  151. Does not justice require of us the fulfilment of the law of God?
  152. Will not justice be eternally violated, if the law of God be not universally fulfilled?
  153. Can they fulfil the law of love who are rendered eternally miserable?
  154. Can justice require the obedience of the sinner, and at the same time require his eternal disobedience?
  155. If whoso “offereth praise glorifieth God,” (Ps. 1:23), can He be glorified by those who have no cause to praise Him?
  156. If any one be rendered eternally miserable, can he have any cause to praise His Maker?
  157. Will God ever place some of his creatures in such a situation they cannot praise him?
  158. Do you believe that endless punishment would manifest the glory of God?
  159. Can you rejoice in the hope of the glory of God?
  160. Would not the salvation of half of mankind glorify God more than the salvation of one-fourth?
  161. Would not the salvation of nine-tenths of mankind glorify God more than the salvation of one-half?
  162. Can we give “glory to God in the highest,” without believing in the salvation of all men?
  163. If “all have sinned, and (thus) come short of the glory of God,” (Rom. 3:23), would eternal sinning mend the matter?
  164. Shall “every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father?” – (Philippians 2:11)
  165. Is endless misery “good tidings of great joy which shall be to all people?”
  166. Could man be endlessly miserable without being endlessly a sinner?
  167. If sin exist eternally, can it be true that Christ was to finish the transgression, and to make and end of sin? – (Dan. 9:34)
  168. As Jesus gave himself a ransom for all men, can he ever “see the travail of his soul and be satisfied,” if endless misery be true?
  169. Do you hope that endless misery is true?
  170. Is “faith the substance (or foundation) of things hoped for?” – (Heb. 11:1)
  171. If endless misery be not a thing hoped for, can it be a part of the Christian faith?
  172. Is it certain that one soul will be eternally lost?
  173. Is it certain that one soul will be saved?
  174. Is it certain that all will not be damned?
  175. Is it certain that all will not be saved?
  176. Can that be certain which is not decreed?
  177. If it be certain that one soul will be saved, must there not be a decree concerning the salvation of a definite number?
  178. If the number of the saved be definitely fixed, must not the number of the damned be equally definite?
  179. If there be no certainty in relation to the final destiny of man, is not salvation a work of chance?
  180. What better is chance than Atheism?
  181. If God knew, when he created, what the end of each soul would be, is not that end as certain as if it was decreed?
  182. Is not the merciful man always merciful to his beast?
  183. Will not the merciful God be always as merciful to His creatures, as the merciful man is to his beast?
  184. Is it true that the “tender mercies of the Lord are over all his works?” – (Ps. 145:9)
  185. Is it true that the Almighty is without variableness, or the shadow of turning?
  186. Would there be any tender mercy in the infliction of endless misery?
  187. Are the tender mercies of the Lord like unto the tender mercies of the wicked which are cruel?
  188. If God is not the Father of sinners, why should sinners pray, saying, “Our Father, forgive us our trespasses?”
  189. “Have we not all one Father? Hath not one God created us?” – (Mal. 2:10)
  190. If God be the Father of all men, will He do less for His children than earthly parents would do for theirs?
  191. Is it true that God punishes us “for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness?” – (Heb. 12:11)
  192. Would endless punishment be for our profit?
  193. Would endless punishment “yield the peaceable fruits of righteousness unto them who are exercised thereby?”
  194. Is there an afterward to eternity? – (Heb. 7:14)
  195. Can any doctrine be too good to be true?
  196. Will God contend forever and be always wroth? – (Isa. 62:16)
  197. Will the Lord cast off forever? – (Lam. 3:31-33)
  198. Can he be a Christian who worships the Lord through fear of the devil?
  199. Can he be a Christian who affirms that if he believed in the salvation of all men, he would not worship God?
  200. Can he be a Christian who inquires, “if all men are to be saved, what use is there in being virtuous?”
  201. Some persons say, that if they did not believe in endless punishment, they would take their fill of sin. How much sin would it take to fill a Christian?
  202. If “the goodness of God leadeth to repentance,” why should His eternal wrath be preached to sinners?
  203. If “the goodness of God leadeth to repentance,” why should it not be supposed that repentance leadeth to the goodness of God?
  204. If “the goodness of God leadeth to repentance,” are not the impenitent the objects of His goodness?
  205. Is not the goodness of God co-extensive and co-eternal with His wisdom and power?
  206. As the wisdom of God can never change to folly, nor His power to weakness, will His goodness ever change to hatred?
  207. Can Deity be universally and eternally good, if endless misery be true for a single soul?
  208. If all men deserve endless punishment, would it not be right for God to inflict it?
  209. “Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?”
  210. If it would be right for God to punish all men eternally, would it not be wrong for Him hot to do it?
  211. As the infliction of endless misery would be returning evil for evil, would it be right for Deity to inflict it?
  212. If the return of evil for evil be right in Deity, would it not be equally right in man?
  213. As “fear hath torment,” and true religion is happiness, can fear produce true religion?
  214. As “perfect love casteth out fear,” will not fear cast out perfect love?
  215. Can fear imbue the soul with perfect love?
  216. Must not they who “believe and tremble,” be possessed of the faith of devils?
  217. Does the belief of endless misery cause the believer to “rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory?” – (1 Pet. 1:8)
  218. Can a belief of any thing short of universal salvation, fill the soul with “joy and peace?”
  219. Will not the devil and all his works be destroyed? – (Heb. 2:14; 1 John 3:8)
  220. Will not death, the last enemy, be swallowed up in victory and destroyed? – (Isa. 25:6-8; 1 Cor. 15:26-54)

#2203

Questions
In order to have a consistent, logical Biblical worldview, some questions about the Final Destiny of people must be answered. The Bible, to be credible, must be able to be logically explained. This is self-evident. As centuries have passed, ideas that were Orthodox, but unbiblical, have fallen away. Sometimes en masse, as during the Reformation. Sometimes more slowly, as with the gradual abolition of slavery, which was led and championed primarily by Christians.
Here are a few questions about the common Orthodoxy of Eternal Damnation. Unless these can be honestly answered, without rhetorical trickery, the Orthodox is just an unorthodox as Relics and paying for release of dead relatives from Purgatory was during the majority of Christian history.
• If some people will end up in eternal torment, is God unable or unwilling to save them? Logically, it must be one or the other. No tricky appeal to free-will can alleviate the tension of the question.
• If we determine our destiny by our free will, then is not our will stronger than God’s will? How do we deal with passages as in Romans 9 that says we cannot resist His will?
• If some people will be tortured eternally, which is apparently the will of Satan, how is Satan a defeated foe? Doesn’t eternal torment make Satan a partial victor?
• How can there be “no more tears” if some people will be tormented forever?
• How can we say that “His mercy endures forever!” if His mercy for us, in the most practical and real terms, ends if we do not choose to follow Christ before we die?
• Given the Bible’s revealed standards of righteous and justice (which are clear and not myterious at all), how is unending punishment just reward for temporary sin? Again, the Bible is clear on standards so saying “God’s ways are not our ways” or “It’s a mystery with God” is only an avoidance of a hard question. The question must be Biblically answered with justification from Scripture.
• If God “gives up” on those who do not choose Jesus before death, how does the parable of the 100 Sheep, with 99 found and the master leaving the 99 to find the one lost one, make any sense?
• Why does God give up on people after death?
• If eternal Hell is the price for disobeying God and living in Sin, why did God hide that from Adam and Eve and promise a different penalty? Why did God hide the most horrific fate possible, torture in Hell forever, from mankind for entire Old Testament period (probably 4,000 years)?
• How does the idea of Col 1:15-20 “restore All Things” (Ta Panta - The universal All in Greek) make any sense if some things are permanently and irrevocably isolated from and unrestored to God forever?
• Why must an omnipotent, omniscient God, who describes Himself as “Love”, settle for not having everything that has ever been made love and worship Him? Why must He settle for a divided creation in which some live in abundant joy and others live in mind-numbing torture? Is God really that weak or does He want that kind of reality?
• Why do we think that our “will” is so absolutely free, when it is affected by every little around us and we rarely respond from thought alone, but often from instinct built in us from birth?
• How can God be “All in All” as Revelation states He will be in the end if All is not in complete harmony with Him and His character of love, joy, peace, etc.?
• Why did God create a place of unending torture in the first place?
• How is God glorified in unending pain that does not lead to being restored to righteousness and loving relationship to Christ?
These, and many more questions, must be answered scripturally and logically if the idea of an Eternal Torture is to be even considered as a Biblical possibility


#2204

RAY PRINZING TAPES

RAY PRINZING IS MY EARTHLY HERO AND MENTOR

GOOGLE UP RAY PRINZING TO READ SOME REALLY GOOD WRITINGS

During my twelve year nervous breakdown caused by my inability to love a god who would allow anyone to suffer forever, I would listen to a Ray Prinzing tape while I washed the dishes of my family every day and before going to sleep at night. Through the years that I repeatedly listened to these tapes I became more and more confident that that I was going to recover from my breakdown.

In the opinion of Rodger Tutt of Toronto, Canada, the following are the best of all of Ray Prinzing’s taped sermons.

6 CHRIST OUR MERCY SEAT
8 NO SUBSTITUTE
9 TRUST
16 SEE NO EVIL
29 THEREFORE CHOOSE LIFE
30 GOD’S WONDERFUL VENGEANCE
32 SUFFICIENT THE EVIL
35 CHANGING THY STRENGTH
36 AS KINGS AND PRIESTS
38 REVELATION TO REVELATION
42 THE TREE OF LIFE
48 KEPT IN PEACE
51 GOD’S RIGHTEOUS JUDGEMENTS
55 ALLEGORY OF RACHEL
56 NONE SHALL BE LOST
59 REPENTANCE TOWARDS GOD
61 AND GOD REPENTED
63 THE END OF THE LORD
71 URGED ON BY FAITH
76 MINISTRY OF SALT
89 BLESSINGS REWARDED OR INHERITED
90 NO CONDEMNATION
95 NOT SOMEHOW BUT TRIUMPHANTLY
101 PASSING THROUGH
104 THE INTERPLAY OF GOOD AND EVIL
105 THE SOVEREIGNTY OF GOD
109 PLENTEOUS REDEMPTION
111 OF THE SAME LUMP
119 HELD TOGETHER BY LOVE
121 ESTABLISH THE SECOND
122 ESTABLISH THE SECOND, PART TWO
123 ESTABLISH THE SECOND, PART THREE
128 ADVANCE IN ADVERSITY
131 ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT
133 AFTER THE PRESSURES
134 THE POLISHED SHAFT
135 INTERNAL TRIUMPH
136 RECONCILED INTO HIMSELF
138 AT PEACE WITH YOUR CALLING
142 THE HIDDEN ONES
143 GOD’S GENTLENESS TO MAN
147 BEYOND DISCIPLINE
148 BEHOLDING HIM
149 DELIVERANCE
150 ENTER THY CHAMBERS
151 GOD OF THE VALLEY
152 GOD OF THE MOUNTAINS
153 IN QUIETNESS
154 IN CONFIDENCE
158 RENEWED INTO HIS MIND
160 EAT THE BOOK
161 HOLD FAST TO THE HEAD
162 THE SEVENTH MAN
164 SORROW TURNED INTO JOY
165 MAKE READY A PEOPLE
166 DESIRE OF ALL NATIONS
167 THE BIRTHRIGHT CHALLENGE
168 MY FATHER IS GREATER
169 HIS PARTICIPATING PRESENCE
170 CHANGES, TYRANNY OR BLESSING
171 TILL HE PLEASE
172 IN HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE
173 KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL
174 THE SWORD GUARDED WAY
175 THE HEAVENLY VISION
176 DEFEATING THE ACCUSERS
177 NEITHER TOIL NOR SPIN
178 THE LAW OF CIRCULARITY
180 HE THAT SHALL ENDURE
181 LIFT UP A STANDARD
183 MUCH MORE
186 WHEN GOD HIDES HIS FACE
187 FAITH VICTORIOUS
188 DIVINE CONFIRMATION
189 WAIT FOR WISDOM’S CHILDREN
190 GOD CHOSE OUR FATHERS
192 LIVED HAPPILY EVER AFTER
194 EARTHEN VESSEL SINKS
196 A VERY PRESENT HELP
197 A NEW COAT, YEAR BY YEAR
198 COME UP HITHER
199 UNDER HIS SHADOW
200 A HUSHED SECRET
201 EXPECTATION OF RIGHTEOUSNESS
202 RETURNING INTO GOD
203 PUT A DIFFERENCE
204 FROM EAST TO WEST
206 TIME OF YOUR SOJOURNING
207 HIS HAND IS STRETCHED OUT
208 WHAT SHALL I DO?
209 TURN AWAY UNGODLINESS
210 GIVE DILIGENCE
211 LIVING EPISTLES
215 THE LORD THY REARWARD
216 THE ANGER OF THE LORD
217 GOD APPOINTED HORIZONS
218 HOLD FAST TILL I COME
219 ACTIVELY RESTING
221 AN INNER REJOICING
222 BLESS ME INDEED
224 NO MORE ECCENTRIC
225 NOT A SPIRIT OF FEAR
226 FORGET NOT ALL HIS BENEFITS
227 AND SUDDENLY
228 THE HEAVENLY HOST ATTENDS
229 FIT FOR THE KINGDOM
230 JUDGEMENT UNTO VICTORY
231 GOD IS IN CONTROL
232 THE LORD OUR HELPER
233 OUR THREEFOLD JUDGEMENT
235 GOD COUNTED THE COST
236 THY LIFE FOR A PREY
237 THE RICH MAN AND LAZARUS
238 FROM POVERTY TO RICHES
239 ABIDING IN GOD
240 PARTS OF HIS WAYS
241 CRUCIFIED WITH CHRIST
242 MASTER OF MYSELF
243 ANOINTED EYE SIGHT
244 FAITH THAT OBTAINS
246 THE FURNACE FOR GOLD
247 RAISE UP THE FOUNDATION
248 SHALL PROSPER IN HIS HAND
250 INWARD REVELATION OF THE SON
251 KINGDOM LIFE TRANSFORMING
252 SO GROWS THE KINGDOM
253 AFTER YE HAVE SUFFERED
254 CHOSEN TO KNOW HIS WILL
255 HEALING THE BREACHES
256 OUR THREEFOLD RESURRECTION
257 A THORN FOR THE FLESH
258 THE MINISTRY OF WAITING
259 THERE IS A RIVER
267 HEARING, LEARNING, COMING
268 THE LORD ALWAYS BEFORE ME
269 HIS NAME SHALL BE CALLED
270 GOLD IN THE MAKING
271 MAKE TO LACK, READY TO FILL
273 ACQUAINTED WITH THE ALMIGHTY
274 EACH IN HIS OWN RANK
278 GOD’S UNFINISHED WORK
280 FULLY PERSUADED
285 CONTINUALLY WITH HIM
286 SURRENDERED TO HIS LORDSHIP
295 TO RECONCILE ALL THINGS
296 INIQUITY SHALL HAVE AN END
297 OVERFLOW WITH RIGHTEOUSNESS
298 THINGS BELONGING TO PEACE
301 HIS DESIRE IS TOWARD ME
302 REFINED AS SILVER
303 AND GOD REMEMBERED
304 LOOSE THE PRISONER
305 ASPECTS OF SPIRITUAL LIFE
306 GOD’S INDWELLING CONTROL
307 OUT OF HIM WE CAME
308 GRACE UPON GRACE
309 JUDGEMENT RESTS FOR A LIGHT
310 HIS MERCY ENDURETH FOREVER
312 THE SURE MERCIES OF DAVID
315 THE DEVIL DESTROYED
316 TOTAL AVAILABILITY
317 VIEWING THE THIRD DAY
326 KINGDOM AUTHORITY

THE BEST OF THE BEST OF THE RAY PRINZING TAPES

GOOGLE UP RAY PRINZING TO READ SOME REALLY GREAT WRITINGS

Ray Prinzing’s very best, and his two extra good tapes.

30 GOD’S WONDERFUL VENGEANCE
101 PASSING THROUGH
104 THE INTERPLAY OF GOOD AND EVIL
109 PLENTEOUS REDEMPTION
123 ESTABLISH THE SECOND, PART THREE
138 AT PEACE WITH YOUR CALLING
215 THE LORD THY REARWARD
216 THE ANGER OF THE LORD
217 GOD APPOINTED HORIZONS
226 FORGET NOT ALL HIS BENEFITS
230 JUDGEMENT UNTO VICTORY
232 THE LORD OUR HELPER
235 GOD COUNTED THE COST (extra good)
236 THY LIFE FOR A PREY
237 THE RICH MAN AND LAZARUS
248 SHALL PROSPER IN HIS HAND
255 HEALING THE BREACHES
295 TO RECONCILE ALL THINGS
315 THE DEVIL DESTROYED
339 GOD SO LOVED HE GAVE
352 BUT GOD MUCH MORE
385 FREEDOM OF THE GLORY
387 ESTABLISHED BY GRACE (extra good)