The Evangelical Universalist Forum

SNIPPETS FROM MY HARD COPY UR LIBRARY

Evangelical Universalism Arguments for Evangelical Universalism
#1442

AN ANALYTICAL STUDY OF WORDS – Louis Abbott
“Forever and Ever”–A Poor Translation
tentmaker.org/books/asw/Chapter5.html

THE UNIVERSAL RESTORATION – ELHANAN WINCHESTER

In the memoir of the author it is written, “He found no quietude, until, by a candid and prayerful examination of the Bible, he became fully satisfied that ‘God will have all men to be saved,’ and that ‘He doeth according to His will.’ His change of opinion was soon noised abroad, and produced a great disaffection in many of his former friends.

Here is a snippet from the book.
“The reason why I do not conceive that “forever and ever” doth intend endless duration is because I find the words as often used for times and periods that must have an end, as you find them used for the misery of the wicked. You bring three passages which are all that are to be found in the whole Bible where they are used in that sense; I shall now invalidate those evidences for endless damnation by bringing an equal number of texts where you will allow the words are used in a limited sense. Is. 30:8; Jer. 7:7; Jer. 35:5.
These passages are as many and as strongly expressed as those which you brought to prove endless misery; and yet nothing can be more evident than that they cannot intend endless duration. The words do not necessarily imply that the wicked shall never be delivered from their sins and consequent suffering.

Now if the words “forever and ever” signify without end, then there is a contradiction that cannot be reconciled, but only understand them as the ages of the ages, (as indeed they ought to be rendered), and the whole difficulty vanishes at once.”

#1443

GOD’S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME

While the righteous are enjoying life eonian, the unrighteous will experience kolasis eonian which means age-during corrective chastisement. When the corrective chastisement has been achieved in everyone who needs it, then both life eonian and chastisement eonian will come to an end and eternity will continue with everyone saved from everything from which they need to be saved, including their stubborn will.

A snippet from
GOD’S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME
“During the present wicked eon (Gal.1:4), Sin reigns, Satan who is said to be “the god of this eon” (2 Cor.4:4) blinds and deceives mankind, and death swallows up the race (1 Cor.15:22). But notwithstanding, God is over all and is in supreme control. He is the eonian God. In due time He will deliver the entire creation and bring good out of all the suffering mankind is called upon to endure (Rom.8;18-23).”

GOD’S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME
THE EONS OF THE BIBLE WITH CONCORDANCE
saviourofall.org/Tracts/Eons2.html

Many Greek scholars agree with John Wesley Hanson
AIÓN – AIÓNIOS
tentmaker.org/books/Aion_lim.html

SEE

THE SCHOLAR’S CORNER FOR THE STUDY OF BIBLICAL UNIVERSALISM
tentmaker.org/ScholarsCorner.html
and
BIBLE THREATENINGS EXPLAINED
tentmaker.org/books/BibleThr … ained.html

#1444

Jesus did not speak English, and neither were the scriptures written in English.

Jesus did not ever say the words “eternal life”. In John 3:16 Jesus promises eonian life (greek: aionios zoe), which quite literally means something of which the horizon/end-point is not in view, but can more generally have the meaning of “pertaining to an age or ages” ie. age-abiding.

Do not confuse this with the idea of immortality - which is also a promise as shown by Paul in 1 Cor 15: 53-57. This is why all will be alive truly forever. Not because of eonian life, but because immortality is granted.

It has caused much confusion and travesty due to the way modern Christian tradition has munged the terms “eternal life” and “immortality”.
There are many examples where the word eon and its Hebrew counter-part olam simply cannot mean literally “eternal” or “forever”, yet the meaning is forced there when it is not warranted.

You can study this for yourself if you wish to honestly understand.

Christian Universalism understands what immortality is and what it means to put it on as scripture defines it. That does not change simply because Jesus was talking about an undetermined period of time.
legoman

ABOUT THE WORD AIONIOS
Dean Hough, director of THE SAVIOUR OF ALL FELLOWSHIP wrote “The definition given in THE VOCABULARY OF THE GREEK TESTAMENT (edited by James Hope Moulton and George Milligan) is helpful. Concerning aionios we read, “In general, the word depicts that of which the horizon is not in view . . .” (p.16). If the horizon of the extermination spoken of by Paul in 2 Thessalonians 1:9 is simply not in view, then we can see that what Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15:22 can truly occur. The same all who are dying in Adam, which includes some who incur eonian extermination, can indeed eventually be vivified in Christ. The Bible, in fact, does not speak of judgment and condemnation, death and destruction, hades and Gehenna, or any of these serious consequences of sin, as unending. It may refer to them as not having the end in view, but none of these fearful works of God can keep Him from achieving His will (1Tim.2:4); reconciling all through the blood of Christ’s cross (Col.1:20, and becoming All in all (1 Cor.15:28).”
Dean Hough

#1445

A snippet from THE GREEK WORD AION – AIONIOS TRANSLATED EVERLASTING – ETERNAL IN THE HOLY BIBLE SHOWN TO DENOTE LIMITED DURATION – JOHN WESLEY HANSON

“The word aidios (not aionios) was in universal use among the non-Christian Greek Jews of our Savior’s day, to convey the idea of eternal duration, and was used by them to teach endless punishment.

Jesus never allowed himself to use it in connection with punishment, nor did any of His disciples but one, and he but once, and then carefully and expressly limited its meaning. Can demonstration go further than this to show that Jesus carefully avoided the phraseology by which His contemporaries described the doctrine of endless punishment? Jesus never adopted the language of His day on this subject. Their language was aidios timoria, endless torment. His language was aionion kolasin, age-lasting correction. They described unending ruin, He, discipline, resulting in reformation.”
See this link.
tentmaker.org/books/Aion_lim.html
See the first item under APPENDIX
AIDIOS – AN IMPORTANT WORD CONSIDERED

#1446

THE UNIVERSAL RESTORATION – ELHANAN WINCHESTER

In the memoir of the author it is written, “He found no quietude, until, by a candid and prayerful examination of the Bible, he became fully satisfied that ‘God will have all men to be saved,’ and that ‘He doeth according to His will.’ His change of opinion was soon noised abroad, and produced a great disaffection in many of his former friends.

Here is a snippet from the book.
“The reason why I do not conceive that “forever and ever” doth intend endless duration is because I find the words as often used for times and periods that must have an end, as you find them used for the misery of the wicked. You bring three passages which are all that are to be found in the whole Bible where they are used in that sense; I shall now invalidate those evidences for endless damnation by bringing an equal number of texts where you will allow the words are used in a limited sense. Is. 30:8; Jer. 7:7; Jer. 35:5.
These passages are as many and as strongly expressed as those which you brought to prove endless misery; and yet nothing can be more evident than that they cannot intend endless duration. The words do not necessarily imply that the wicked shall never be delivered from their sins and consequent suffering.

Now if the words “forever and ever” signify without end, then there is a contradiction that cannot be reconciled, but only understand them as the ages of the ages, (as indeed they ought to be rendered), and the whole difficulty vanishes at once.”

#1447

Aionion means relating or pertaining to part, the remainder, or the entirety of one or more eons. It is most often used in reference to the oncoming eons (the eons of the eons), either together or separately. The Greek of the NT has eon, eonian, eon of the eons, eon of the eon, conclusion of the eons, the on-coming eons, for the eons, from the eons, the eons of the eons, the present eon, conclusion of the eon, etc. There is also “before the eons” (1Cor. 2:7).
To say that someone or something is eonian is not to declare the subject eternal, but it may also be eternal. In conclusion, the etymology of “aionion” refers to a limited period of time, but it does not limit anyone or anything that other evidence shows to exist, operate, or apply either before and/or after the eon(s) in question.
Just as God is the God of Israel and the God of the universe, God is eonian (for He created the eons for a purpose, and is to be especially relied upon during the eons, when sin is in operation), as well as existing as the only Supreme Sovereign both before and after the eons.
Kenneth Larson

#1448

THE AGES IN THE SCRIPTURES – VLADIMIR GELESNOFF

“Words are inadequate to describe the harm which has resulted from confounding the ages with eternity.

The Greek and Hebrew terms rendered ‘forever and ever,’ ‘eternal,’ ‘everlasting’ never refer to endlessness; but to a series of terminable periods know as age-times. These ages are periods in which God carries on remedial work, but they have a conclusion and pass away when the purpose to be accomplished in them has been realized. The ages are never synonymous with endlessness but always distinct therefrom.

That the words translated ‘forever and ever’ are associated with the hereafter of both believer and unbeliever is true; but in the case of both it is limited to the span of the ages, and has not the remotest reference to the final state of either. Therefore the dogmas of endless agony and endless sin rest on purely imaginary premises and are without the slightest shred of biblical support.”

#1449

CHRIST TRIUMPHANT – THOMAS ALLIN

It is true that aionios may be applied as an epithet to things that are endless, but the idea of endlessness in all such cases comes not from the epithet, but only because it is inherent in the object to which the epithet is applied, as in the case of God.

‘This is life eternal’ should be ‘the life of the ages,’ i.e. peculiar to those ages in which the scheme of salvation is being worked out. The ‘eternal covenant’ is the ‘covenant of the ages,’ the covenant peculiar to the ages of redemption. The ‘eternal purpose’ is really the purpose of ‘the ages,’ i.e. developed and worked out in ‘the ages.’

We who teach the larger hope believe that not in this brief life only, but through future ages, Christ’s work shall go on till the last straying sheep shall have been found by the Good Shepherd. Then, at the expiry of these ages ‘cometh the end’ when Christ shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, and God shall be All in all (1Cor. 15:28).

#1450

GOD’S PERFECT PLAN

“Many attempts have been made to prove that eons are eternal. The Greek word aion and the Hebrew olam, both meaning age or eon, have been translated by terms meaning endlessness. This is a grave error, for the divine Author, Himself has not used them in this way. He has indicated that they were not eternal in the past by informing us that they had a beginning (1Cor. 2:7), and, again, that they cannot possibly be everlasting in the future, for they are to end (Heb. 9:26; 1Cor. 10:11).

God’s plan for creation is confined to time. It is not an ‘eternal’ purpose’ but a ‘purpose of the eons’ (Eph. 3:11). Beyond the ages there will be naught but bliss and perfection for every member of creation (Rom. 8:19-22). Sin and evil and death will then be past; all will be saved and reconciled, and God shall be All, not in a few, but in all (1Cor. 15:28).”

GOD’S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME
THE EONS OF THE BIBLE WITH CONCORDANCE
saviourofall.org/Tracts/Eons2.html

#1451

MY BELIEFS

I’m convinced that after we have thought the very best thoughts about God, we can be sure that He is even better than that because He is able to do above what we can even think, Ephesians 3:20. And IMHO I cannot think any higher thoughts than universal transformation.

I believe that after our resurrection from the dead God will eventually somehow transform every second of everyone’s suffering into something better that it happened.
That includes both the unexplained and seemingly unjustifiable suffering that we all experience in varying degrees, as well as what the Bible calls “kolasis aionion” which means age-during corrective chastisement that everyone who needs it will experience.

I believe that God will eventually fit every unique individual into His master plan in a positive way that necessitates their unique temporary involvement in evil and suffering that will enable God to manifest, and glorify, and magnify the many facets of His character in a way that uniquely involves that person, and everyone else involved in that person’s life too.
Then, after God has finished using evil and suffering for the reasons why He allowed them to temporarily exist, He will eradicate them from existence.

I believe that God has both the ability and the intention to save all fallen creatures from everything from which they need to be saved, and He will not fail to do so.

I believe that God’s determination, within the wise counsel of His DECRETIVE will which is that which MUST occur, to eventually rid all of creation from suffering, will in every case, overcome the strongest will that is temporarily opposed to God’s PRECEPTIVE will which is what His creatures OUGHT to do, e.g. THE GOLDEN RULE.

All evil eventually leads to good, however, God is the only One Who can do this. He created evil (Isaiah 45:7), to provide the contrast for good. When all good is revealed, then evil will be abolished from God’s universe—forever.
THE PURPOSE OF EVIL – A.P. Adams (GOOD EXPOSITION)
thegloryrd.com:80/apadams/evil.html

I believe the only mistake that I am probably making is in grossly underestimating just how gloriously God will achieve this universal transformation through what Christ accomplished for everyone by His death and resurrection, through the power in the blood of his cross.
That is the kind of God that I see in the Bible.

Realizing that he is including everyone without exception, the following quote by Christian universalist Dr. Leslie Weatherhead nicely sums up what I believe. I’ve had it memorized for many years and love to quote it frequently.

“God’s purposes are so vast and glorious, beyond all guessing now, that when they are achieved and consummated, all our sufferings and sorrows of today, even the agonies that nearly break our faith, the disasters that well nigh overwhelm us, shall, seen from that fair country where God’s age long dreams come true, bulk as little as bulk now the pieces of a broken toy upon a nursery floor, over which, thinking that all our little world was in ruins, we cried ourselves to sleep.”

THE COROLLARY TO MY BELIEFS

For me the corollary to my belief in universal transformation is just as important as the belief itself.
The corollary is that when the chips are down and I am overwhelmed by life’s negatives to the point where I can’t make my wonderful theology work for me in a practical way, yet even that sorry state of affairs is something that God will eventually transform into something better for me that it temporarily prevailed.

#1452

Thank you for that - it came as encouragement at a very good time!!

#1453

Glad it was a help Dave. :slight_smile:

A POEM BY WIILIAM WORDSWORTH (1770-1850)
One adequate support
For the calamities of mortal life
Exists, one only; - an assured belief
That the procession of our fate, howe’er
Sad or disturbed, is ordered by a being
Of infinite benevolence and power,
Whose everlasting purposes embrace
All accidents, converting them to good.

Alexander von Humboldt (1767-1835) wrote
“The conviction, arising from a firm confidence in Almighty goodness and justice – that death is only the termination of an imperfect state of being, whose purpose cannot be fully carried out here, and that it is the passage to a better and higher condition, should be so constantly present to us, that nothing should be able to obscure it, even for a moment; it is the groundwork of inner peace, and of the loftiest endeavors, and is an inexhaustible spring of comfort in affliction.”

THE INTERPLAY OF GOOD AND EVIL – RAY PRINZING

“God is sovereign, and He controls all the interaction of evil and good, and causes all to redound to His own glory. It is not – what was lost by the fall was to be regained by redemption, BUT by the interaction of FALL AND REDEMPTION, God achieves greater, wiser, nobler, and higher goals for everyone than by the Adamic race remaining in its pristine state.

Evil and good are synchronized to accomplish God’s will and purpose, so that the ultimate goal shall reveal all evil transformed back into good, and all negation cancelled out by GOOD. Evil is allowed for wise ends, and when these are secured it must cease to exist, for God will restore all things into good. HE controls all the interaction between evil and good until His purpose of the ages is fulfilled. Then shall God be All in all.”

#1454

MYTHS - Kenneth Larsen

“…they will be turning their hearing away from the truth, yet will be turned aside to myths." 2 Tim. 4:4

Scripture: “And if you are loving those loving you, what thanks [grace] is it to you? For sinners also are loving those loving them. And if you should be doing good to those doing good to you, what thanks [grace] is it to you? For sinners also are doing the same. And if you should ever be lending to those from whom you are expecting to get back, what thanks [grace] is it to you? For sinners also are lending to sinners, that they may get back the equivalent. Moreover, be loving your enemies, and be doing good, and be lending, expecting nothing from them, and your wages will be vast in the heavens, and you will be sons of the Most High, for He is kind to the ungrateful and wicked.” Luke 6:32-35.
Myth: “God expects something from us (to exercise our free will) before His grace will be of any benefit to us. God loves His enemies, and will give the most ungrateful and wicked among them the wages of sin (death) forever.”

Scripture: “For to vanity was the creation subjected, not voluntarily, but because of Him Who subjects it, in expectation that the creation itself, also, shall be freed from the slavery of corruption into the glorious freedom of the children of God.” Romans 8:20, 21.
Myth: “Satan and Adam subjected the creation to vanity. The creation will be freed from the slavery of corruption by the Almighty, by granting incorruptibility to a few, and annihilating the rest.”

Scripture: “…Not one is seeking out God. All avoid Him…” “Consequently, then, it is not of him who is willing, nor of him who is racing, but of God, the Merciful." Romans 3:11, 12; 9:16.
Myth: “Seek God and you’ll be saved. Your salvation depends on how you exercise your free will. If you’re lost, it will be your own fault.”

Scripture: “For God locks up all together in stubbornness, that He should be merciful to all.” Romans 11:32
Myth: “It was Lucifer’s doing, and Adam’s. God is merciful to all us humans because He gives us a chance to escape the consequences of their sins.”

Scripture: “and through Him to reconcile all to Him (making peace through the blood of His cross), through Him, whether those on the earth or those in the heavens. And you, being once estranged and enemies in comprehension, by wicked acts, yet now He reconciles" Colossians 1:20, 21.
Myth: “God wishes He could reconcile all the estranged on earth and in the heavens, but He has to have cooperation from those on earth; He can’t do it alone. As for those estranged in the heavens, they’re hopeless.”

#1455

THE NARROW DOOR

The language is entirely confined to the present.
“Lord, are there few that be ‘saved’?” The literal rendering is: “Are those being saved few?” The question relates entirely to the number then, at that time that were entering the narrow door and accepting Christ.

But we know that sooner or later God will have (wants if you like) all men to be saved (1 Timothy 2:4)
It is God’s “pleasure” that all mankind be saved.
And “God is operating all in accord with the counsel of His will” (Ephesians 1:11).

Change it to read “in accord with the counsel of what He wants if you like.
Because God says
“My counsel shall stand.
I will do all my pleasure
(the saving of all mankind is part of the pleasure that God wants)
Yea I have spoken it.
I will also bring it to pass.
I have purposed it.
I will also do it.”
Isaiah 46:10,11

Job 23:13 “But he stands alone, and who can oppose Him?
He does whatever he pleases.
(the saving of all mankind is part of what He wants that pleases Him).

Isaiah 55:11 so is my word that goes out from my mouth:
It will not return to me empty,
but will accomplish what I desire
and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.
(the saving of all mankind is part of all of which God desires or wants)

So we see God does all His pleasure, He does whatever He pleases, and His word accomplishes that which He desires.
His pleasure, that which He desires and pleases Him is what He wants.

His will = What He wants
What does He want?
THE SALVATION OF ALL MANKIND
Why will it happen?
Because God Himself will see to it that it gets done.

#1456

NOT EVERYONE – Matt. 7:21

If these words were taken literally, then no one at all would enter the kingdom of Heaven because, at least for a period of time EVERYONE doesn’t do the will of the Father.
According to Rom. 3:10-18 EVERYONE starts out in the condition described in those verses.

All that Jesus meant by that statement is that NO UNREPENTANT SINNER will ever enter the kingdom of Heaven.

But we know that a time is coming when there will be no unrepentant sinners left in existence.

We know this because God “will have all men to be saved” (1 Timothy 2:4)
It is God’s “pleasure” that all mankind be saved.
And “God is operating all in accord with the counsel of His will” (Ephesians 1:11).

Change it to read “in accord with the counsel of what He wants” if you like.
Because God says
“My counsel shall stand.
I will do all my pleasure
(the saving of all mankind is part of the pleasure that God wants)
Yea I have spoken it.
I will also bring it to pass.
I have purposed it.
I will also do it.”
Isaiah 46:10,11

Job 23:13 “But He stands alone, and who can oppose Him?
He does whatever he pleases.
(the saving of all mankind is part of what He wants that pleases Him).

Isaiah 55:11 so is my word that goes out from my mouth:
It will not return to me empty,
but will accomplish what I desire
and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.
(the saving of all mankind is part of all of which God desires or wants)

So we see God does all His pleasure, He does whatever He pleases, and His word accomplishes that which He desires.
His pleasure, that which He desires and pleases Him is what He wants.

His will = What He wants
What does He want?
THE SALVATION OF ALL MANKIND
Why will it happen?
Because God Himself will see to it that it gets done.

Just like in the case of Lydia (whose heart the Lord opened, Acts 16:14) and Saul of Tarsus (Acts 9:1-8), our cooperation to be saved is the result, not the cause, of God laying hold on us by His sovereign grace and causing Jesus to be “choice” in our heart.

The timing of the salvation of everyone is under God’s sovereign control.
God arranges everything so each person will be saved according to His perfect timing for each individual.

#1457

NOTHING gives me greater pleasure than to guide people to the reasons why I see an infinitely different God in the Bible than the one I was taught in the several different eternal punishment churches I attended during years gone by and in the Bible school from which I graduated.
I’m 77 years old.

CHRIST TRIUMPHANT - Thomas Allin
tentmaker.org/books/ChristTriumphant.htm

#1458

NOW IS “A” DAY OF SALVATION
(not “the” day of salvation)

auburn.edu/~allenkc/today.html

#1459

Calvinism, Arminianism, or Christian Biblical Universalism

Which view of salvation is true?

Two good expositions specifically answering that question!

ABSOLUTE ASSURANCE IN JESUS CHRIST – Charles Slagle
sigler.org/slagle/absolute.htm

THE LAW OF CIRCULARITY – J.Preston Eby
godfire.net/eby/circularity.html

#1460

COMMON ARGUMENTS ADDRESSED
Good news of God’s love for all mankind - find it here at Tentmaker
tentmaker.org/FAQ/index.html
and
Quick Find: Links to Information on Hell and Universal Salvation
tentmaker.org/bloglinks.htm

CONSEQUENCES OF ETERNAL TORMENT THEOLOGY
tentmaker.org/articles/hells_fruit.html

BIBLE THREATENINGS EXPLAINED
tentmaker.org/books/BibleThr … ained.html

THE SCHOLARS CORNER THE CENTER FOR BIBLE STUDIES IN CHRISTIAN UNIVERSALISM
tentmaker.org/ScholarsCorner.html

UNIVERSAL SALVATION UNIVERSITY
richardwaynegarganta.com/universalsalvation.htm

#1461

RESPONSES TO CURRENT CHAMPIONS OF ETERNAL TORMENT THEOLOGY

Don Hewey
gtft.org/Library/condon/Question … nswers.htm
saviourofall.org/opposers/HeweyOnAion.html
saviourofall.org/opposers/He … leOne.html
saviourofall.org/opposers/He … leTwo.html
saviourofall.org/opposers/He … Three.html

Eric Landstrom
saviourofall.org/opposers/Landstrom.html
saviourofall.org/opposers/Landstrom2.html
saviourofall.org/opposers/Er … fAion.html
savior-of-all.com:80/aionian.html

Matt Slick
saviourofall.org/opposers/Exposing.html

SIX WRITINGS REFUTING MATT SLICK OWNER OF THE CARM WEBSITE
indefenceofthecross.blogspot.com … alism.html
tentmaker.org/articles/matt_ … etalk.html
scaredofhell.com/CARMmattsli … uttal.html
city-data.com/forum/christia … slick.html
saviourofall.org/opposers/Slick1Mt2546.html
saviourofall.org/opposers/SlickMark328.html

May the Lord point Matt Slick to Jesus so that he may repent and leave behind the ridiculous doctrine of eternal torment that slanders the character of God.
KNOWING THE REAL JESUS
godfire.net/eby/godislove.html

It is absurd to say that Jesus would not be doing it !!!
godfire.net/eby/circularity.html

WHAT JESUS REALLY TAUGHT ABOUT “HELL”
tentmaker.org/articles/jesus … nhell.html

Tom Logan
saviourofall.org/opposers/To … r1528.html

Dwane
saviourofall.org/opposers/EonLimitGod.html

W. E. Vine
saviourofall.org/poisonfruitofvine.html