Dani,I realize homosexuality is a hot debate at the moment, so this is just a question. Are you saying that if we no longer refer to homosexual practices as sodomy then people can’t say that it is biblically incorrect?
Well I do not know what to say. Somehow you are right. But on the other hand my point is,
that during history the term SODOMY was used to hunt and execute peopel in the name of the bible, God, maybe Jesus.
And IMO this is not acceptable.
I would like that then matter of SSA/homosexulity, etc. would be treated Jesus-ly correct.
Shalom and Agape
Dani
Although Lot didn’t initially display the same acumen for “righteousness and justice” as his uncle Abraham (Gen 18:19) he was at least in-kind with him in terms of the divine decree for hospitableness (Lev 19:33-34; Deut 10:19 Gen 19:1-3; 18:1-8])… Sodom’s way however was far from it being one of injustice and violence – hence “the outcry rising against Sodom” (Gen 18:20-21; 19:13 4:10; 6:11]).
More specifically ‘the iniquity of Sodom’ (Ezek 16:49-50) was that of in her super-abundance or “prosperous extravagance” [Gk.] cf. 1Tim 1:6; Jas 5:5 (Sodom was even compared to ‘the Garden of the Lord’ Gen 13:10) Sodom lacked any charitable graces. Sodom’s lasciviousness had absolutely no space nor regard towards the needs of the “poor and needy” even to the point of insolent “bragging” [Gk.] against such.
Thus as I understand it according to the biblical information available… the presence of <ἀρσενοκοίταις> (which actually doesn’t appear in the LXX) can be overstated as being solely “homosexual” per se in inclination, but again was part of Sodom’s broader violations of sexual wantonness possibly summed up by Judes’ somewhat vague “chasing after strange flesh”. Either way, the Ezekiel passage demonstrates the height of ignominy and inhospitality, especially so toward strangers.
Undoubtedly Chad, I’d say whatever orifices of whomever was definitely in the ball park.
I myself have not heard the term sodomy used in conjunction with same sex couples, although I’m sure there are some out there who do use it as such. To me, sodomy indicates that the sexual act is forced unwillingly upon a person, in other words aggravated rape as Chad has suggested. However, even if the term is no longer used in reference to homosexuality, homosexuality would still be biblically incorrect and not the right way according to God. God did not create man to be with man nor woman to be with woman. He created them male and female. This is the truth. To say otherwise is simply denying the obvious. We can say what we want to say, but “the emperor still has no clothes.”
That being said, people do have a right to live their own lives, whether right or wrong, as long as it does not violate another’s right to life, liberty and property. In matters such as this, we are not to judge. We are to follow Jesus by setting an example and helping others. But, we must also speak the truth, teaching others the way of life according to God. In this way, we let people judge for themselves.
I think that a lot of people have become more tolerant of homosexual couples. One thing I have noticed though, if one disagrees and says that it’s wrong, he/she is criticized and labeled a hater and bigot.
I do not want to do that. That would be the other extreme.
I just see the following problem:
If homosexual relationships are wrong and not intented by God as you indicate I do not think that we help homosexuals by pointing to Sodom and Gomorrah by demostrating that it is wrong. By doing so I think we cause more harm than help and in the end we might be responsable for the demage and NOT the healing of someones soul.
Blessings Dani
As they say “the pendulum swings”. This is why it is important to continue to work and guide people to the light of Christ. 
This is interesting,
Lev_20:10 'If there is a man who commits adultery with another man’s wife, one who commits adultery with his friend’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.
Lev 20:13 'If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them.
Well, most here know the account in John 8 about the woman caught in adultery.
Dani brings up a good point, as does LLC.
But davo puts a twist that I did not realize, also that in Galatians the ‘fruits of the spirit’ really is talking about: As J B Phillips says:
The activities of the lower nature are obvious. Here is a list: sexual immorality, impurity of mind, sensuality, worship of false gods, witchcraft, hatred, quarrelling, jealousy, bad temper, rivalry, factions, party-spirit, envy, drunkenness, orgies and things like that.
Makes me start to look at this in a different light.
Quarreling?? That’s in some pretty heavy company.
The good thing about pointing the crooked (read, hypercritical) finger at ‘homosexuality’ is that it is in all probability the least of all possible infractions rampant within any ‘believing community’ and so in condemning it we can feel morally self-righteous; and there’s nothing quite like superior thinking to enhance the THEM/US mentality of religianity. Not forgetting this… it was ‘the practice’ (as opposed to any ‘inclination’) which was roundly spurned biblically in terms of ‘the covenant community’ NOT necessarily in terms of the general populace of man.
Again, apart from those already mentioned the reasons are multi-layered…
- To engage “the practice” was to engage according to the idolatrous worship of pagan gods in-kind with the surrounding nations – not dissimilar in reflecting the same SIN of “we want a King like the nations around us” – thus rejecting Yahweh! 1Sam 8:5-7; 19-20; 10:19; 12:12. Thus to do as “the nations” did was yet more insult and affront to His face. 2) To engage “the practice” on the very basic human level could in all potentially be a point-blank threat to their literal existence – and as Yahweh’s priests the world needed Israel.
Dave, do you think exchanges on forums, like this one, could be considered quarrelling?
Amazing how much energy is spent pointing at one manifestation of sexual sin. The real problem?
… Go ahead and point at homosexuals. But when 50% of pastors (another cov statistic for your eyes RANDY!!! since I know you will ask) are looking at porn, it seems disgusting that we would put all our efforts towards speaking out against gays. Especially gays in society that are not in the church. God will deal with them, along with all the porn users.
BTW - cov eyes has great statistics on porn use. Over 66% of men in the church are regular viewers of porn. To be honest, these are men that ‘admit’ it… Many look at things like SI swimsuit issue and don’t call it porn, when it is more graphic than a playboy from the 60’s. God will judge everyone.
If you want to download this for yourself (looking at you Randy) you can get the information here covenanteyes.com/pornography-facts-and-statistics/
Ok, we talked about Sodom’s sin.
Any thoughts on Sodom’s restoration?
Agape and Shalom
Here again is Sodom’s restoration.
Amazing how many people, especially how many religious leaders, have no idea this passage exists. Some have attempted to “mitigate” it by translating the passage along the lines of: “I will restore the fortunes of Sodom and her daughters and of Samaria and her daughters when I restore your (Jerusalem’s) fortunes . . .” They then proceed to argue that NONE of these cities will be restored. (Most of this commentary comes from older works created before the restoration of Jerusalem as an Israeli city, but I think the promise is better than just the rebuilding of cities.) At any rate, I’m told the linguistic justification for translating (and interpreting) the passage that way is lacking.
Then there’s Jesus’ statements, which are less easily dealt with
And
Bottom line, I guess, is that these cities, like all cities, will be judged. I believe they will also be restored. So far as I am aware, that is all the Bible specifically says about the judgment and restoration of Sodom.
I think it’s important to note that the list of Sodom’s sins in Ezek. 16:49-50 ends with “did abominations” or “did detestable things,” depending on the translation. Of course, homosexuality is called an “abomination” in Leviticus. The fact that Sodom’s last night, recorded in Gen.19, involved this sin big time strongly suggests that this is the abomination in question (as opposed to other sins that Bible calls “abominations”). So I think we need to be careful not to define THE sin of Sodom as inhospitality.
On a more positive note, here’s an old, excellent article on the prophesied restoration of Sodom (Ezek. 16:53,55,61), and its UR implications: tentmaker.org/books/SpiritOf … 1Sodom.htm
I’m not sure the sin of Sodom described in Genesis, having to do with the treatment of the angels, was homosexuality per se. THAT seemed more like the kind of aggressive practice of dominance, perpetrated by sodomizing one’s victims. I’m not saying homosexuality was not among the sexual perversions of Sodom, or that sexual perversion wasn’t among the reasons Sodom was destroyed. I’m on the fence about homosexuality. I can’t see it as normative. If anything more or less “benign,” then I would say it is a malfunction of the sexual appetite. A malady. Clearly it’s not a survival trait. We have all sorts of things we can chalk up to maladies–often things that are also sins.
Jesus didn’t come to save the healthy, but the sick. (None of us is completely healthy, btw.) I think that there are some people who, for whatever reason, find themselves to be other than they would desire. I don’t know what a man should do if he should find himself to be homosexual. I know of some who are VERY distressed to find this tendency within themselves, a tendency against which they cannot seem to fight and prevail. On the one hand, they may feel themselves to be unacceptable in their leanings. On the other, perhaps they cannot bear the thought of never experiencing the comfort of giving and receiving love with a dedicated companion. I don’t know the answer. I just know that I ache for the afflicted.
ok, I hope that it is ok that I post that but I think it is important
and it shows how dangerous it can get misreading bible stories
and drawn wrong conclusions. Here the case of UGANDA:
youtube.com/watch?v=ims7_3wud7A