The Evangelical Universalist Forum

The Best “Proof Text” of Correction After Judgment

Here it is! The best “proof text” in the Bible concerning the correction of the unrighteous after they are judged!

The Lord knows how to deliver the devout out of trial, but to reserve the unrighteous for a day of judgment, to be corrected.

Here is an interlinear for your consideration:

οιδεν—κυριος— ευσεβεις εκ πειρασμου ρυεσθαι— αδικους
knows the Lord- devout—out of trial—— to deliver-unrighteous

δε -εις —ημεραν κρισεως—— κολαζομενους τηρειν
but into a day—- of judgment to be corrected to keep (2 Peter 2:9)

The whole strength of this “proof” lies in the translation of the lexical form of κολαζομενους, that is, “κολαζω” as “to correct”.

I realize that some may object to this translation, but the Online Bible Greek Lexicon gives the primary meanings of “κολαζω”as:

  1. to lop or prune
  2. to chastise, correct, punish

Abbott-Smith’s A Manual Greek Lexicon of the New Testament gives the meanings:

  1. to curtail, dock, prune
  2. to check, restrain
  3. to chastise, correct, punish

Originally, the word was used in reference to the pruning of trees, shrubs, or vines with a view to correcting their growth by shaping them. Later it was used figuratively with reference to the correction of people, e.g. children.

To translate the word as “punish” is correct as long as it is understood to be reformative rather than retributive. In English, “punish” may have either connotation, although it is more often taken in the latter sense, or even more likely in the sense of administering a penalty.

In Greek, the word “τιμωρεω” has the meaning “to punish” in the retributive sense. Indeed, every lexicon I have checked gives the primary meaning as “to avenge”. Strongs indicates that the word was derived from the two words “τιμη” (honour) and “οὐρος”(guard). Put them together, and you have the concept of a person guarding his honour through vengeance. In recording Paul’s own words concerning his treatment of disciples of Christ prior to Paul’s becoming a disciple himself, Luke wrote:

*Acts 22:5 "as also the high priest bears me witness, and all the council of the elders, from whom I also received letters to the brethren, and went to Damascus to bring in chains even those who were there to Jerusalem to be punished (τιμωρεω).

Acts 26:11 "and I punished (τιμωρεω) them often in every synagogue and compelled them to blaspheme; and being exceedingly enraged against them, I persecuted them even to foreign cities.*

One of the best ways to get a sense of how a Greek word is used is to note how it is used in literature. The word is used in 4 Macabees 2:12 to indicate correction of children. No good parent punishes his children out of vengeance, but corrects them out of love.

[The law] takes precedence over affection for children, so that one corrects (κολαζω) them for their misdeeds.

4 Macabees is thought to have been written sometime between 100 B.C. to 100 A.D., that is, in the period in which the New Testament was written. It seems the author had been strongly moved by his reading of the deeds of Antiochus Ephiphanes against the Jews in 1 and 2 Macabees. So much of his “philosophical” thought and “devout reason” centers around the history he read there. In the following sentence he uses both “τιμωρεω” and “ κολαζω“ in a single sentence!

The tyrant Antiochus was both punished (τιμωρεω) on earth and is being corrected (κολαζω) after his death. (4 Maccabees 18:5)

The Judaistic belief at the time was that people’s souls survive death. So the sentence seems
to say that while Antochus’s enemies got their revenge on him and his armies here on earth, God began to correct his soul after death. The author apparently held that post-mortem punishment was remedial. Otherwise he would not have chosen the word “κολαζω” but would have maintained the word “ τιμωρεω” for Antiochus’s punishment after death, too.

Though most traslators render the word “κολαζω” in our “proof text” as “punish”, the Concordant renders it as “chasten”.

The Lord is acquainted with the rescue of the devout out of trial, yet is keeping the unjust for chastening in the day of judging. (Concordant)

Thanks Paidion, that sounds reasonable to me :slight_smile:

Most interesting, especially the use of both words in the one sentence. Thanks for that.

Very interesting. Thanks Paidon.
(I do enjoy your insightful posts. If I may ask, are they a product of a profession or just a lifetime of personal study?)

The only profession I was in, was that of an elementary school teacher for about 30 years. So I guess it’s study that deepened my understanding of Christian matters. I was helped by years of koine Greek study, but also by reading early Christian literature, especially that from the first two centuries.

When I first the encountered teaching that no one would not be tortured in hell forever , I thought it was heresy! I was in my forties at the time.

Excellent study.
It’s interesting that you found both words in the same sentence. It really helps to make sense of the language when it’s placed in context like that.
I love to see the nuances in Greek. It really helps to keep us on the right path.
Thanks for sharing!

+1

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like

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How do these dang-fangled websites work again!?

Thanks to those who expressed your appreciation.

I posted the same thing on “The Narrow Path” forum, but it didn’t go over that well with some of the members. However, others who post to the forum, believe in the reconcilation of all things to God. Thus a bit of a debate ensued.

I am expressing my appreciation too. :slight_smile:

ditto, thanks Paidion :slight_smile:

Oh right?. Wow, it’s interesting hearing how everyone “found” UR.
Thanks.

Hey Paidion
I’ve never asked: what happened that turned you around in your thinking? What was the thing that got you thinking about UR and what finally convinced you?

Okay, this needs a bit of background. Please bear with me.

My mother and siblings were Baptists, and I, as the youngest, was influenced by Baptists of various stripes, especially the conservative type. I was born and raised in the backwoods of Northern Ontario on a simple farm by which my father just eked out a living. We had no automobile, no motors of any kind, and no electricity. I had no opportunity of going to church. I still live on the property on which I was born.

My father, a non-Christian, was killed in a hunting accident when I was 17, and then my mother and I moved to a small village, and I attended high school for 2 years, completing grade 13. During my teens I was a Calvinist, a strong believer in “predestination” and “eternal security” (actually, unconditional security), and thought it was my mission to convince everyone else of these doctrines. In my teens, I was puzzled by denominations. All the churches I knew claimed to go exactly by the bible, and yet taught conflicting doctrines. How could it be determined, which, if any, of these churches were correct? One pastor in the local Baptist church urged me to get baptized. I asked, “Would I be doing as well if I got baptized in the ____ church?”
“Oh, no. They believe blah, blah, blah, but we believe yatty, yatty, yatty.” That was precisely the problem for me, and so I didn’t get baptized there. (Later at age 19, I was baptized at a church in a different location).

At age 21, I attended a bible school for a year and tried to convince everyone of my Calvinism, including Erwin Lutzer, who was in first year with me. The next year, I attended Manitoba Teachers College, and tried to convince my Mennonite friends. At age 24, I married and I began teaching at a Hutterite community for the next 3 years. What a wonderful experience! I began to think, "If I could get hold of some Christian writings dating from a period just after the days of the apostles, I might learn the truth! Surely they would have been in a better position to understand what the apostles were teaching than we, 2000 years later! So I purchased the first volume of the Ante-Nicene Fathers, and began reading. I was hit between the eyes by strong teachings which demolished my “predestination” and “eternal security” beliefs. I repented of those beliefs, and looked to the Lord and to the bible for truth. At the time I had held the penal substitution theory of the atonement, like any good evangelical would. But I didn’t find this in any of my reading of early literature. I saw that the New Testament gave the reason for Christ’s death as a means to live righteously and overcome wrongdoing.
From my reading I also saw such details in the description of early church meetings as body ministry (Christian meetings are open to anyone to minister as led by the Spirit), and eucharist or communion every Sunday.

We moved back to my home area in 1967 when I was 29, where I easily obtained a teaching position in an elementary school. Then I discovered a church in this area which had some of the practices which I had been reading about in early Christian literature — body ministry, and communion every Sunday. Every church has elders and deacons who are responsible for leadership in the local assembly. They also taught that God had restored the five-fold ministry to the Church. This local church was part of a circle of fellowship which included churches from all over the world, especially in foreign countries. The leading brethren of the circle (which we call “travelling elders”).

One summer when we were attending a summer camp of this circle, I heard one of the leading brethren at the dinner table make a statement which astounded me, “I never could believe in an everlasting hell.” What? Couldn’t this man read his bible? “… and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.” FOREVER AND EVER! What could be plainer? People will be tormented in the lake of fire forever and ever, along with the devil and the false prophet!
I walked around in a daze. What have I gotten myself into? I have gotten myself into a CULT! I was extremely upset. Now if the leading brother had spoken of the eventual reconcilation of all people to God, I might have been able to consider it. But NO EVERLASTING HELL! INTOLERABLE!

Then at some point, I seemed to hear God speak. “Relax. Don’t worry about this. All will become clear.” Then to my amazement my stress lifted completely.

After I returned home, whenever I read the bible during the next few days, I seemed to find find the truth of the reconciliation of all to God, in every passage to which I turned. It followed that if everyone were reconciled to God, then no one would not be in hell forever. So God Himself brought me to the truth! After that I began to look at people differently. Prior to this understanding it was “them and us”. Christians and non-Christians, the latter being an entirely different species of humanity, a species which was blind to the truth and had a different way of looking at everything. Better to stay avoid them whenever possible. But now I saw that we are all in the same boat. We all need to repent and submit to the authority of Christ. It’s better to do it NOW in this life. But if not, we’ll have to do so in the next. God has as much time as He needs to bring all of humanity to Himself.

Thats exactly how it was for me too when God showed me the truth. :slight_smile: I had much more love and tolerance for them. Less judgmental.

Wow, that sounds so familiar of my past… :confused:

Amen. :stuck_out_tongue:

Excellent testimony Paidion, thank you for sharing. :slight_smile: