The Evangelical Universalist Forum

The Christian life is impossible

Practices Christian Living
#21

One “potential” solution is to introduce open theism. :smiley: See:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_theism
iep.utm.edu/o-theism/
gotquestions.org/open-theism.html

It should be noted that Calvinist site Got Questions, will have problems with it - as their “commentary” reflects there-in. And a Calvinist like Matt Slick, with have a different answer - to your stated problem:

carm.org/if-god-all-knowing-and-he-knows-our-future-then-how-free-will

And suppose all the future is fixed. And I went to the Theosofest (held in September, at the Theosophical Society). And I paid some big sum of money - to 10 readers - to read my future. Well, suppose that all these readers - have some reading ability. Then all ten should see, the same big event coming (I win the big lottery, I die in a plane crash, etc.). My Protestant mom - now deceased at 92.5 years - had the gift of prophesy. But I believe she is seeing “the most likely possibility”. Like what you see in Quantum mechanics. And NOT fixed events. And open theism brings up possibilities - NOT certainties.

Let me see if I can paraphrase Paidion’s viewpoint. He believes in open theism and universalism. But a person will be given - an infinite amount of purification time - to make the right choice (being with God).

And you can even bridge open theism and the prosperity gospel, as this author has done:

nolongerbechildren.com/2011/05/30/the-link-between-open-theism-and-the-prosperity-gospel/

Perhaps we need to seek out - some “academic experts” :question:

#22

When you place a slice of bread and a piece of meat in front of a dog, he eats the meat first. Did he “choose” to eat the meat? Or did he eat it because of his nature as a carnivore? I am not convinced that mammals in general make choices, although I am undecided about some types of apes, but am decided about homo sapiens.

Unless I misunderstand you, your concept of “libertarian free will” is that if anyone has it, he can actually accomplish anything he chooses to do. If that is your understanding then I reject the concept also. It is clearly false. You may choose to beat up a man who has insulted you, and yet not be able to do it. No matter how much a little boy chooses to flap his arms in order to fly, he cannot fly by that means.

However my understanding of “libertarian free will” is as follows:

The determinist and the compatibilist don’t agree. They believe that if X has has performed action A at time T, he couldn’t have done otherwise due to prior causes.

#23
#24

Robot and puppet are very loaded terms. I don’t want to be anybody’s puppet, unless that somebody is God, in which case I don’t think the word “puppet” applies, though you might think differently. Why should I have qualms about being conformed by Him to the image of Christ, with or without my having a choice in the matter? In fact, if I had the choice, I would much rather choose not having one. How is having a choice in this of any benefit? I suspect that when God’s work of redemption is entirely finished, and I am completely conformed to the image of His Son, I’ll nonetheless remember what it was like to believe that I had a will of my own, the terrible burden of it, the terrible disaster of it, and be overwhelmingly grateful for having been cured of that delusion.

#25

No, i see the idea of Libertarian Free Will (LFW) as an inner decision that is independent from a person’s actions. A completely physically paralyzed person would be an example of that.

#26

Horan, I believe as is said, “Where there is a will, there is a way.” The benefit is, we are not stuck in the circumstances that life doles out to us. I have seen many people who have lost their will, and to me, it is a sad thing.

#27

No responsibility for our failures. No credit for our successes or salvation, which rules out boasting, judging others or “brother of the prodigal son syndrome”, which is much like “I have an issue with Hitler being saved” syndrome.

Men would not be responsible, but accountable for themselves at the judgement which is for the purpose of correction.

Supposedly for the same reasons a LFW advocate wouldn’t, e.g. the law, the wrath of God, “hell”, lake of fire, torment into the ages of the ages.

In the OP Benny Hinn speaks of two things: [1] the Christian life demands you taking up the cross & follow Christ. He quotes the OT Scripture “all that i have and all that i am is yours” & applies that as the prayer of the whole heart to Christ. [2] the 2nd half of the sermon regards how impossible it is, in the flesh (in & of ourselves) to please God.

I’ve listened to hundreds of hours of “prosperity gospel” teachers. They very seldom mentioned afterlife hell & when they did it was 2 minutes or less. Over ninety-nine percent of the time the good news they proclaim is salvation from hell in this life. Salvation from darkness, demons, destruction & destitution. Deliverance from sin, sickness & sorrow. In some ways they are very much like universalists who think the only hell is in this lifetime. Such universalists might feel quite comfortable following such teachers.

Some do, some don’t.

#28
#29

Due to no credit of my own, which is no wise a false humility, I’ve been blessed to have perceived that the promise of Jesus Christ is very real, that I can take it to the bank, set my watch by it, though we know neither the day nor the hour. While I live in a world that’s vastly filled with deception, His word is better than gold. So I’m not going to argue against the power of positive thinking with regard to improving the circumstances of life, when the Lord has made it abundantly clear that all I need do is bear this life, such as it is, with loving patience, waiting on the fulfillment of His promise. It hardly matters, except to my comfort perhaps, whether I’m stuck in a circumstance or not. The Lord has said that I can reasonably expect to be persecuted, and that this is actually an enviable circumstance to be in. I know there are those who have lost their will to live. Such is our manner of speaking about it. I would put it that these have invested all their hope in their life in this world, and been bitterly disappointed. They have been deceived. We are cautioned not to do this, to not layup our treasure, our life, our hope where it can be so easily corrupted, but who listens to this? Who is worse off, or better off, one who has lost all hope in this life, or one who experiences little else but plenty and success and believes in it wholeheartedly? This latter has also been deceived. I would say it’s the one who has the promise of Jesus Christ, regardless of their circumstance, because the life of this world is short. Perhaps he who is hopeless is walking closer to the hope that’s genuine.

#30

I happened upon this author the other day. I’d never heard of him before. He seems to be, as far as i can tell, a Compatibilist Purgatorialist, and a sort of Calvinistic Hopeful Universalist. I find the articles to be very well written, interesting & understandable, such as:

stanrock.net/2014/10/14/does-de … us-robots/

There’s even a paragraph on “quantum mechanics”, a video & pictures :smiley:

#31

And this from the same blog, same author is quite good

stanrock.net/quick-notes-on-romans-9/

#32
#33

‘Benny Hinn has repented of manipulating people for their money’? Maybe not:

#34

This whole thread from years back is kind of hard to stomach.