The Final Proof


#1

Dear all,
I hope you all are doing great!
Before I leave this forum I would like to ask you one last question:

What is the Final Proof for Universal Salvation?

There are so many critical voices against it out there, saying that Universal Salvation is based on occult and extra-biblical revelations and that it is NOT biblical!

So what is the FINAL PROOF?

Thanks and all the best for all of you!
Blessings, peace and loving-kindness
Dani


#2

I doubt that there is such a final proof. The weight of scripture seems to me at least to support UR but obviously not sufficiently to convince the majority - of evangelicals, say. One reason may be that the average Christian may not read and study the subject for themselves, preferring to rely on pastors and ministers to explain the “truth”.

I would respectfully submit that, as in my own case, too few Christians afford any time to think through the awfulness of an eternal hell - the unspeakable pain and suffering of mind and body, not for a mere 70 years more or less, but for ever and ever and ever. And not only for those who we may think deserve the sufferings of hell, but for all - no matter how kindly and considerately they may have treated others in this life.

This may sound uncharitable, but I’ll ask the question anyway. Do such believers really believe that the vast majority of souls since the Fall, will end up in the agony of hell with no way out - including young children, the aged and infirm; and including those who never heard the gospel but lived their lives according to the light they had.

Calvinists believe that all the non-elect, including non-elect infants, are destined for hell. How can that be just? Arminians believe the same although they explain it differently.

I think a changing point in my experience occurred when I asked myself a question. Could I set fire deliberately to any other living creature, let alone a human being made in the image of God? My answer was no, I don’t think I could. I don’t think that the God who loved us so much that He sent His Son to be the Saviour of the World, i.e. everybody not just a select few, would do what I couldn’t do. I hope that isn’t blasphemy. After all, God is LOVE


#3

I think this is what it comes down to. IMO people often over-think questions with such simple, blatantly obvious answers as, “would it be loving to torture people forever?”. It’s like people think it’s a trick question. “There MUST be more to it” they reason. But there’s not.


#4

Thanks for the answers.
But some might say that God is not only love, that He is also justice.
Mhmm actually, does it say in the Bible anywhere that God is justice or does it “just” say that God is just. Because if it “just” says that God is just then couldn’t it be that God is truly just because He is LOVE?

Love and blessings
Dani


#5

Here’s how a Calvinist “proved” that God doesn’t love everyone:

But IMO that looks more like a “proof” of universalism.


#6

We could speak of various “proofs” of universalism:

  1. Scriptural proofs

  2. Revelatory proofs

  3. Logical proofs

  4. Intuitive proofs

  5. Emotional proofs

  6. Scientific proofs, e.g. OBEs

Proof for the Teaching of Christian, Biblical Universalism:
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/unique_proof_for_universalism.html


#7

I’m pretty sure the biblical concept of justice is a harmonious relationship of self-giving. The idea that retributive torture is justice is not biblical IMO.


#8

I don’t know of any scripture that says justice cannot be done in a loving, correcting, pruning way, when done by our Maker.