I’m going to go off the reservation here. I don’t think that “seat of the emotions” is really an especially good definition of the way scripture sees the heart metaphor. Yes the heart can be associated with emotion in scripture. I just don’t think that’s its primary definition.
Jesus said, “As a person thinks in his heart, so is he,” and that ‘out of the evil treasure of his heart he brings forth evil things and out of the good treasure of his heart he brings forth good things.’ (Sorry if I’ve got that off by a bit–I’m relying on memory.) God promised the children of Israel a new heart of flesh to replace the old heart of stone. Incidentally I don’t think the context in this particular instance calls forth a definition of the flesh in the sense that Paul defines ‘the flesh’. The flesh is seen as corrupt in Paul’s writings, and clearly this promise implies changing corruption for incorruption. That said, God will give us (or has given us) something alive for something (stone) that has never truly been alive.
What does God give us on rebirth? He gives us a new heart. Jesus breathed on His disciples after His resurrection and commanded them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.”
We are, as an intellect-worshiping people, in the habit of equating the heart with the functions of the brain. We equate the heart with the physical thought process (or if you like, the mind). Scientifically though, the mind (if by ‘mind’ you mean the physical brain) is part of the flesh. It works mechanically/electrically/chemically. The mind is spread out through the body in the sense of the hormone system controlled by it, and the hormonal system profoundly affects the condition of the mind (as anyone who suffers from depression can confirm). Emotion is a function of this mind/body system–it is a product of hormones, electrical impulses, and thought patterns (and more than that of course, the mind being the most complex and intricate of our physical systems.) I would therefore argue that the ‘heart’ is not the seat of emotion, but rather the mind taken as a whole is the seat of emotion.
So what is the heart? As I mentioned earlier, Jesus gave the Holy Spirit to His disciples–as He had promised earlier when He stood up on the last day (‘that great day of the feast’) and cried out saying, “Whoever is thirsty let him come unto Me and drink. Whoever believes on Me, as the scriptures have said, out of his innermost being shall flow rivers of living water. This He said of the Spirit, that they that believed on Him were to receive, for the Spirit was not yet given because that Jesus had not yet been glorified.” (That’s toward the end of John 7.)
The heart is the innermost being, the home of the our spirits, which are to be the home of His Spirit. The heart is the unliving thing of stone that God replaces with a new, living, holy heart of flesh. I believe the heart IS the human spirit. Our spirits were numb and dead, not having been enlivened by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. They were deceitful and desperately wicked. We elevated our minds (eating from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil) over our hearts (which are supported by the Tree of Life). We even confuse our hearts with our minds. The mind is the thing that we are to be renewing by the ‘washing of the water of the word’. The spirit however, is made new by God. I believe this happens immediately upon our true turning away from our old selves and toward Christ–the receiving of the Holy Spirit.
This is the way I see it. Our spirits were always intended to be the conduit through which the Holy Spirit speaks to and influences and teaches and guides us. Our minds are to be the SERVANTS of our hearts (but we have made the mind our master–a servant that makes a terrible master)
Proverbs 30:21-23English Standard Version (ESV)
21 Under three things the earth trembles;
under four it cannot bear up:
22 a slave when he becomes king,
and a fool when he is filled with food;
23 an unloved woman when she gets a husband,
and a maidservant when she displaces her mistress.
The parts of this I’m interested are “a slave when he becomes king” and “a maidservant when she displaces her mistress.” Our bodies and our minds are supposed to be our slaves/servants, but we have made them our masters/mistresses. It is our hearts (which I believe to be at least somewhat represented by the metaphor of the heart). We’ve historically had the organization upside down. We elevate our minds over our hearts/spirits. I think that the spirit/heart is the throne on which the Holy Spirit ought to sit and the conduit through which God speaks to us.
I like Rumi’s take on the heart the best. This is where I’m at right now. It’ just resonates with me:
Heart
The deliciousness of milk and honey is the reflection of the pure heart:
from that heart the sweetness of every sweet thing is derived.
The heart is the substance, and the world the accident:
how should the heart’s shadow be the object of the heart’s desire?
Is that pure heart the heart that is enamored of riches or power,
or is submissive to this black earth and water of the body,
or to vain fancies it worships in the darkness for the sake of fame?
The heart is nothing but the Sea of Light:
is the heart the place of vision of God–and then blind?
On Resurrection Day God will ask,
“During this reprieve I gave you,
what have you produced for Me?
Through what work have you reached your life’s end?
Your food and your strength, for what have they been consumed?
Where have you dimmed the luster of your eye?
Where have you dissipated your five senses?
You have expended eyes and ears and intellect
and the pure celestial substances;
what have you purchased from the earth?
I gave you hands and feet as spade and mattock
for tilling the soil of good works;
when did they by themselves become existent?
You know the value of every article of merchandise,
but if you don’t know the value of your own soul,
it’s all foolishness.
You’ve come to know the fortunate and the inauspicious stars;
but you don’t know whether you yourself are fortunate or unclean.
This, this is the essence of all sciences –
that you should know who you will be when Judgment Day arrives.
Surely there is a window from heart to heart:
they are not separate and far from each other.
Two earthenware lamps are not joined,
but their light is mingled as it moves.
No lover seeks union without the beloved seeking;
but the love of lovers makes the body thin as a bowstring,
while the love of loved ones makes them comely and plump.
When the lightning of love for the beloved
has shot into this heart, know that there is love in that heart.
When love for God has been doubled in your heart,
there is no doubt that God has love for you.
Know that between the Faithful is an ancient union.
The Faithful are numerous, but the Faith is one:
their bodies are numerous, but their soul is one.
Besides the understanding which is in the ox and the ass,
the human being has another intelligence and soul;
Again, in the saint, the owner of Divine breath,
there is a soul and intelligence other than human.
The souls of wolves and dogs are separate, every one,
but the souls of the Lions of God are in union.
There are two kinds of intelligence.
One is like that acquired by a child at school,
from books and teachers, new ideas and memorization.
Your intelligence may become superior to others,
but retaining all that knowledge is a heavy load.
You who are occupied in searching for knowledge
are a preserving tablet,
but the preserved tablet is the one who has gone beyond all this.
For the other kind of intelligence is the gift of God:
its fountain is in the midst of the soul.
When the water of God-given knowledge gushes from the breast,
it doesn’t become fetid or impure.
And if its way to the outside is blocked, what harm is there?
For it gushes continually from the house of the heart.
The acquired intelligence is like the conduits
which run into the house from the streets:
If those pipes become blocked, the house is bereft of water.
Seek the fountain from within yourself.
In the orchard a Sufi inclined his face Sufi fashion upon his knee,
and sank deeply into mystical absorption.
An rude man nearby became annoyed:
“Why are you sleeping?” he exclaimed.
Look at the vines, behold the trees and the signs of God’s mercy.
Pay attention to the Lord’s command:
Look ye and turn your face toward these signs of His mercy.”
The Sufi replied, “O heedless one, the true signs are within the heart:
that which is external is only the sign of the signs.”
The real orchard and vineyards are within the very essence of the soul:
the reflection upon that which is external
is like a reflection in running water.
In the water only a reflected image of the orchard
quivers with the water’s subtle movement.
The real orchards and fruit flourish within the heart:
the reflection of their beauty
falls upon the water and earth of this world.
If this world were not merely the reflection
of that delectable cypress, the heart of the saint,
then God would not have called it the abode of deception.
Oh happy is the one who has died before death,
for he has become acquainted with the origin of this vineyard.
I can’t tell you how joyful it makes me to see so many getting involved in this topic! And with good humor! Thank you!
And thank you Cindy for your reply. I was hoping this would attract at the least your feminine input because we single-minded male-type human beings often need the broader-based opinion of the female-type Jehovah has richly blessed us with in order to be balanced. Vive la différence!
I wish all of you to know that I will be gone till after New Year’s, so I do not have time, right now, to continue my replies and post my answer to my own question, but I will when I get back.
Please accept my wishes for a Joyful New Year to be yours from our Savior and King, Jesus the Christ!
Be good! For that is what Jehovah created us to be!
Please accept from me an apology for the lateness of this reply. Life handed me a bowl of lemons recently, and it took awhile to extract the lemonade. My hope is that, if I’ve written anything worthwhile, the momentum will be re-established on this topic.
Wow. Is it really possible to know in advance, whether you will be, “fortunate,” or “unclean;” to know the value of your own soul before that day when a decision is made over you?
I say yes. Just look into your own heart.
[size=150]~[/size]
I perceive that The Words divide all of humanity, male and female combined, into one of two types: The wise and the foolish.
Now, I don’t see any need to quote a bunch of text supporting this contention because, if you are on this forum, I’m sure you have your own intimacy with The Words that will bring to your memory a myriad of scriptures that, by my simply presenting this contention, will start a cascade of thought.
And then lead you to ask yourself, in your heart, “Am I wise, or foolish?”
[size=150]~[/size]
I think you will agree that everyone who responded to this inquiry wrote from their heart. Some wrote from their own considerations; and thus I think it likely that, in them, as they typed, some previously nebulous connections were made cogent. And some sought help in expression by referencing the works of others who have thought on the question, “What is the heart?” These found, at the least, something that they hoped would contribute value to this exchange, or, at the most, something to which they found a response of agreement coming from his or her soul.
So, all of the replies were thoughtful.
And that is why we say that they came from the heart.
[size=150]~[/size]
Have you noticed that when you sit down to type, you’re words create a tone in your writing that reflects your current mood, that is to say, it reflects the emotion you are currently feeling?
If you are felling light and pleased, there is a tone of humor and satisfaction; if you are feeling frustrated or irritated, a tone of sarcasm creeps in; if you are feeling a sense of unfairness and resentment, your typing alternates between defensiveness and accusation; and if you are feeling knowledgeable and sure, a tone of authority is generated.
Don’t we also call this, “speaking from our heart?”
[size=150]~[/size]
So, what is the heart?
Well, for my own heart, I define my heart as the sum total of all the thoughts within me from which I will speak, act, and react to the words and actions of others.
My heart is the sum total of all the thoughts within me from which I will speak, act and react to the words and actions of others.
My heart is the sum total of all the thoughts within me from which I will speak, act and react to the words and actions of others.
That is what I say my heart is.
That pretty much means that my thoughts are at the center of my being.
Very soon after I came to this, “definition,” I noticed something I had not noticed before because, for the first time, I began noticing my thoughts.
I noticed that every single thought was generating an emotion in me; every thought was leading me to feel something! And I do mean feel because even feeling blasé is feeling an emotion!
Now, when I said that I began noticing my thoughts for the first time, I mean that I began slowing down my memory’s recall of whatever response had come from my heart to seek out the thought that I noticed was generating the emotion with which I was responding. That is to say, that I began to use my intelligence to analyze and then put my thoughts into words; words that then formed sentences that conveyed exactly what I was thinking.
All of this thought occurring… in the snap of my fingers.
And generating an emotional response just as quick.
So, where did a thought like this come from? The short answer: my upbringing.
But, is this thought truthful? That is, *does it accurately reflect reality? *
No. It does not.
So, I realized that I could change my heart, by changing my thoughts. I began by replying to such specious thoughts with thoughts that better reflected reality.
From my memory of my accomplishments, I was able to answer: “I have proven by my many successes that I am not incompetent. And those who depend on me have shown that they will forgive me even if I do fail.”
I found that by responding to my heart like this - with my intellect - I could overcome the paralysis caused by the previous thought and tackle difficulties, despite my fears.
By the way, for thinking on the incapacitating power of fear I have come to understand that courage cannot be shown if fear is not felt, first. Therefore, every time a person who experiences gephyrophobia crosses a bridge, he or she is being courageous, which cannot be said if the fear of bridges is not present.
Now this is nothing new to our psychology. In fact, I found a proponent for this understanding in John Eldridge, an Augustinian theologian with an uncharacteristic point of view when it comes to the heart. He has much good to say to all who desire righteousness.
[size=150]~[/size]
Speaking of Augustinianism:
Calvinist do a lot of pondering on the heart, don’t they? And well it is that they do. So, they should have some thoughtful things to say about our hearts, for it is a truth that we have problems with our heart,
However, there is a consideration that parallels this quote of Jesus. It is often rejected when perceived, or it does not even make it into the considerations of many who contemplate the truthfulness of Jesus’s quote, and this consideration is that out of a human being’s heart also comes thoughts of sexual purity and monogamy, trust, morality, generosity, charity, honesty, decency, empathy, truthfulness, humility and wisdom. So, would not all these things also come from inside a human being and thus make him or her clean?Even among those who are not yet Believers? Or is it truly impossible for anyone who is not a Believer to be anything other than a human being with a wicked heart?
Think on Noah. Think on Job. Think on Jacob, who was a tam man that dwelled in tents (we call him a scoundrel, based on the KJV, but is that what Jehovah labeled him?). Think on Daniel and his three friends. Think on Rahab. Think on Ruth. Think on the Roman Centurion who was kind to the Jews, and then on all the Gentile men and women of peace that provided hospitality to the Disciples as they spread the Gospel of reconciliation between Jehovah and human beings. Think on all the Disciples and on the first Believers. Think on yourself. What was in your heart before you became a Believer?
Yes, you were a sinner, for you have sinned, as did I - I have stolen, lied, and defrauded others, I was the other man in adultery, so, I too was placed within that pen that Paul said God put all human beings in and then labeled, “Disobedient,” that He might have mercy on us all. (Rom 11:11) But, from within my heart, I remember that a sinner was not what I desired to be; I desired to be something different. What is your memory on this?
So, has any human being ever passed the testing of their inner motivations? If so, was their heart also deceitful and sick and unknowable by either themselves or Jehovah?
By the way, how exactly does Jehovah, “fore-know,” a human being? Can human beings also, “fore-know,” another human being?
So, what is righteousness? What does it mean to be righteous? What is this power of God? What is faith? Shouldn’t we know what these words mean if we are to bandy them about?
Here is what I think in my heart when I hear these words:
Righteousness is: Doing what is right, consistently. Righteous people are virtuous people because they know the difference between good and evil and choose to do good, consistently.
The power of God is: The power of regeneration; the power of rebirth.
Faith is: Deciding, after due consideration, to make a proposal of explanation that requires belief (as opposed to believing from proof) a part of the center of your being.
,"]"…Near you is the declaration, in your mouth and in your heart - that is, the declaration of faith which we are heralding that, if ever you should be avowing with your mouth the declaration that Jesus is Lord, and should be believing in your heart that God rouses Him from among the dead, you shall be saved. For with the heart it is believed for righteousness, yet with the mouth it is avowed for salvation." Rom 10:8-11 CLV
So, as was written on the the Calvinist website, “In order for a person to be saved, then, the heart must be changed. This only happens by the power of God in response to faith.”
Does this sentence now seem to you to take on a different sense of understanding?
[size=150]BINGO!![/size]
That is what the new heart, the heart of flesh, the heart that can love God and our fellow human being, from appreciation, is all about! New ideas about what is and isn’t truth, new wisdom that goes beyond just a natural understanding of how we interact with each other, and new desires that recognize the goodness in the God of the Universe, enabling us to trust him; desires that replaced the old desires that led us to sin and thus to destroy ourselves.
Thus, the heart, my heart, as I see it, is the sum total of all the thoughts within me from which I will speak, act and react to the words and actions of others.
I like the new ideas, the new wisdom and the new desires that were implanted in me when I was re-sired of holy spirit.
In other words, I now like being a human being!
I like it because being a good human being, good at being human, is exactly what I was created to be!
And, as I see it, so were you.
It’s all in the heart.
And that is why I say, be good! Because, I know you can be good, if you have the heart for it.
Cindy, please know that I wanted to reply openly and personally to your response, as I did with others who replied - and before I made my previous post - but Stuff and Life kept me occupied, and I felt my too-long absence might have dissipated the momentum that was here before New Year’s Day. So, I desired to give this topic a good, swift kick, as soon as possible, to see if it would move again.
There seem to be too few feminine souls providing input here, and so I wish all those that are active to know that I appreciate their input.
There was a time when I would have quoted Jesus as saying, “As a person thinks in his heart, so he is.” It just sounds so truthful and just like something He would say! But, when I tried to find the reference using those words, in various combinations (and using, “man,” and “thinketh!”), I couldn’t!
The closest thing I found was Proverbs 23:6-7 in the KJV.
However, Jesus’ analogy comparing the output of the human heart to the output of a fruit tree does a very good job of saying the same thing.
And I will add His rebuke to the Pharisee’s over ritual hand-washing: that it is what comes out of a man, that is out of his, “heart,” that defiles him, not what goes into his stomach, as proof that actions from the heart are what defile a man. And by implication, what comes out of his heart can also make him pure!
I thought it somewhat prescient that your started your reply with this idea.
So, I perceive from this that you separate the mind from the heart, that is, they are not the same thing to you, in your thinking.
Did you know that in the passage I quoted in my above reply, Deuteronomy 17:10 Jehovah literally said that he searches the heart and tests the kidneys? “Heart,” used here is pretty self-explanatory… but, kidneys?!?
Well, it seems that the kidneys were once considered the center of intellect, which is to say, the mind. Mostly the KJV translates kilyah in those metaphoric instances with the English word, “reins,” implying that the mind, the intellect, can steer the heart. So, in this verse we see either a separation of the two, or else a very weird example of Hebrew parallelism!
Cindy, no one I’ve ever asked this question of has ever provided such an involved and deeply thoughtful answer. Oh! Bravo!
You say that the human spirit is the heart.
Okay. That’s a new one for me! Your logic is well presented and I don’t wish to gainsay it.
However, given what you believe, could I ask if you would tell me what you think of this thought from my heart?
My pondering led me to conclude that spirit is the stuff of sentience; it is what makes us self-aware, gives us personality and gives us the ability to articulate and appreciate The Abstracts like Beauty, Love, Marriage, Art and Mathematics.
I say this because Jehovah infused into The Awdam something unique: He gave him of His spirit, His breath, and, unlike what it was for all the other animated creatures to gain the appellation, “living souls,” that moment of infusion was when The Awdam became a Living Soul! Additionally I noted that He did not have to infuse this spirit into Ishsha when she was separated from Ish.
Also, for seeing that Paul considered body, soul and spirit to be three distinct things, yet part of a whole (I Th 5:23), and that the NT writers seem to make a distinction between soul and spirit (I Cor 15:5 & Heb 4:12), then, by their not mentioning the heart when speaking on these things, I concluded that the heart was something different from the spirit.
Do you see anything attractive or useful in this thought?
What was very cool to me in your reply was that you made the connection that it is the spirit that is made new by God.
My connection was to perceive that the spirit is what is re-sired when the Spirit of Jesus enters us, as I wrote above. Also, Paul speaks of this Spirit making a home for Itself inside of us (Rom 8:9-11 CLV). So indeed the human spirit is changed, somehow, and this leads to something grand, righteousness!
I just came across this–I haven’t been on here in several days. Thanks for your kind words. A lot of this comes down to how we understand words and concepts and of course, how the Hebrews understood them. I agree that Paul does seem to understand body, soul & spirit as three distinct things though part of the whole. Your idea that it is our spirit that allows us to understand and appreciate the arts, etc. is an interesting point and you may very well be right. It makes sense. First, I’d better clarify that when I speak of the heart/spirit as a cold, dead thing, I mean that it is dead in the sense of being separate from Life–from God. Knowing Him IS eternal life–that is, the God kind of life. Obviously there are plenty of pre-saved people who appreciate beauty.
I’ll share with you the way I see the development of mankind, but just understand that these are only ponderings.
I think that God formed a singularity, the seed of a universe, and He caused it to explode in the only place it COULD explode (there being nowhere that HE is not), within Himself. This we would call the Big Bang. He retreated from this system that He had set in motion, treating it in mostly a hands-off fashion and allowing it to develop however it would. That’s the only way I can imagine that He could create entities OTHER than Himself. Real individuals and not mere robots. So we eventually came forth, possibly with the help of an occasional nudge where absolutely necessary. He maintained epistemological distance. He did not direct the evolution of His world. That’s why there is so much cruelty and chaos. It was necessary in order for the creatures to become on their own.
At some point, mankind became capable of rational thought and of action (not mere reaction). THAT is when we were equipped and ready to receive His spirit and maybe that’s also the time that we began to appreciate beauty, etc. That was when we became His children rather than creatures of instinct. I don’t see this as a sudden thing. Hardly anything in development is sudden. It may seem so, but really development is gradual, a gradient. We (predictably) elevated our newly found intellect, our cleverness, over our spirits. It wasn’t good enough to receive our knowledge from Him organically and live by His life. We wanted to live our own lives and think our own thoughts independently from Him. We shut Him out and chose instead the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. We’ve been eating from that tree ever since.
The problem here is that apart from Him, we are still evolving. We still live by the cruel laws of the beast. We developed on our own to a certain degree, but now the agent of our creation and development has become the enemy of our further progress. We CANNOT take the next step on our own. Jesus came to rescue us from ‘the flesh’ and elevate us. Perhaps that could have happened at the very beginning, had we been willing. Maybe it could have happened at the beginning of the Exodus if the Hebrews hadn’t insisted they would much rather have a law to follow. God wanted communion with them, but they were too afraid, so He gave them the law they asked for. I really think He let us go through all this because we needed to see for ourselves that those things weren’t going to work. We NEED to choose Him, however until we are grown up enough to be willing to be the little children we are, we CAN’T choose Him. Eventually, we will all hear that still small voice of the Spirit and we will either accept or not. When we say no, we go back to our emptiness until such a time as we may have another window of opportunity–a time when we could be capable of responding with a ‘yes,’ and God’s Spirit calls to us again. Meantime, He woos us and draws us and gives us such little bits of love as we’re able to receive. He doesn’t give up, no matter how long it takes. ALL of His creation will be brought in, the sons and daughters of Adam and Eve first and with us all of the rest of the creation as well.
So, until and unless Father changes it, that’s my understanding to date. I’ll be interested to know what you think.
A happy new year to you, Dennis. And to all the folks here.
A lot of this comes down to how we understand words and concepts and of course, how the Hebrews understood them. I agree that Paul does seem to understand body, soul & spirit as three distinct things though part of the whole. Your idea that it is our spirit that allows us to understand and appreciate the arts, etc. is an interesting point and you may very well be right. It makes sense. First, I’d better clarify that when I speak of the heart/spirit as a cold, dead thing, I mean that it is dead in the sense of being separate from Life–from God. Knowing Him IS eternal life–that is, the God kind of life. Obviously there are plenty of pre-saved people who appreciate beauty.