The Evangelical Universalist Forum

The House of Eli

That is what I believe.

You believe it, even though:

  1. There is no evidence for it.
  2. There is evidence against it.
  3. You’re Arminian, meaning you believe that Jesus’ sacrifice DID expiate that sin and, therefore, that if they repented they could be saved; your whole theology, therefore, prevents you from holding that with any confidence.

Believing something against the evidence can only happen if you either want the thing to be true or you’re afraid to believe otherwise.

Do a study of Eli’s sons they were wicked unto death and showed no signs of repentance( the reason why God took them out). The Jews believed the righteous and the unrighteous both went to sheol/ hades after death. Luke 16:19-31 shows this.

New Hampshire and New England!? Well I’ll be! :laughing: :sunglasses:

What do you mean by “forever”? Do you mean a state of infinite time that keeps on going and never ends? And if so, where do you get that idea from scripture? I’d like to see your references.

Stellar

A state to which time has no application; timelessness

There would be no “forever,” or infinite time, then. So this concept of people “never ever ever” getting out of hell would be meaningless since there would be no such thing as time.

We would just be talking about eternal, timeless states of being. And who is timeless? God. Thus, the “death” and “torment” are experiences of the eternal, timeless God by spirits which are eternal as well.

Yet we are already having experiences of either death or life. So what gives? How do we “get” from one to the other, Revival?

You can play around with the word “eternal” all you want, stellar, it still does not change “eternal” being a state of constant existence. :wink:

‘Constant’ implies time, too. But you just said that eternity is timeless. Your own words.

No, those were the English dictionary words. :wink: Eternity is a place of constant existence that never ends. It a very long time to spend in the wrong place. You’re entitled to have your own odd take on eternity, stellar, and I will stick to mine.

Just to clarify…

It’s a place which is timeless but which constitutes a very long time

:confused:

Eternity is a place of constant existence that never ends…a duration without beginning or end. Its not bound by time. Pretty long duration to spend getting refined in the LOF, eh?

But you said it was timeless - which means time does not pass - stasis - in which case nothing can ever happen because events can’t follow each other - unless you mean a never beginning or ending series of events happen simultaneously and not sequentially. If, however you mean a never beginning or ending (sounds a bit like a good definition of God that) sequential series of events then that is - er… time.

Yep its without beginning or end, which is why eternity is the wrong translation. An age has a beginning and an end. You said it yourself Christ said there are two ages (even with your flawed logic that there can only be two, having to ignore all other evidence). Are there 2 eternities? Are we in a place of time right now? Then how can we after we die be in a place without beginning?

One of the many reasons its not properly translated eternity.

To give you an idea how long eternity is… here is a good analogy: **With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. ** Wrap your finite minds around that one. :laughing:

you continue to contradict yourself, you better be careful eventually your head may explode :laughing:

a day or a thousand years have a beginning and an end, eternity doesn’t they are not compatible

infinity minus one is infinity , 1000 minus one is 999

So according to my calculations if one were to spend just one year in the lake of fire in eternity to be supposedly “refined” that would be the equivalent to 365,000 years. :open_mouth:

God love ya, Redhot. :laughing: It was imagery that came from the word of God ( 2 Peter 3:8) to give you a glimpse of eternity verses “a day” of time in this world.

No its not, because you are reading eternity into the passages where it shouldn’t be (along with other infernalist translators). I’ll try again.

Eternity by your own admission is without beginning or end. When we die and enter “eternity” it has a beginning. It may have no end, but it has a beginning, THEREFORE eternity is not a proper translation (by our modern understanding of the word). Its kind of like hell. The word doesn’t mean what it originally meant. It meant unseen, or covered. Now it “means” a place of burning torture.

There cannot be 2 eternities. Age is the correct translation. An age has a beginning or an end.

Bless… :slight_smile:

:laughing: Ok, Redhot, if you say so…I will stick to God’s imagery…off to work.

365,000 years to be “refined” Jeff if you just spend just a year in the lake of fire. Add that to the years you spend in hades/hell if you die in this world without Christ before the lake of fire judgment. :open_mouth: