The Evangelical Universalist Forum

The Irrevocable Call of God

It’s interesting that the statement of irrevocablity is so rare in scripture - but it is - and is applied to only one proclamation in the OT and re-affirmed in the NT, namely, that every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Christ is Lord.

The call to that confession takes place on both sides of the veil and both result in glorifying God. It is the same confession. That confession results in salvation - anywhere and at any time, as Paul reminds us.

We, as Christians, are promised rewards in heaven for spreading the Gospel in all the ways it can be spread, including a mere cup of water if it helps in the advance of Christ’s Kingdom. No one will not lose their reward - even unbelievers who helped without knowing it. The clueless sheep, for example.

Salvation is not a reward - it’s an irrevocable given. A gift, in fact, to the world and the equally clueless goats!

Will there be resentment by believers in heaven over the salvation of all men? Or rejoicing? (There’s certainly resentment here over that irrevocable inevitability.)

Remember the parable of the complaining field hands about being paid the same as the guys who showed up at the very end. There is one irrevocable salvation for mankind and it will be perfect and complete for every individual.

Most people, unfortunately, misunderstand what kind of gift we were given, believing it is something one can ‘give away’ once they have received it (or they argue nothing can be given which is not received by the recipient). Both misunderstandings are based on obvious fallacies.

The gift of Salvation is not like a birthday present.

Paul makes it clear.

Romans 5:6-8
You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die. But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

The gift of salvation came at the cost of the life of the one who gave it, without regard to the one he gave it too. Whether or not they were a ‘willing’ recipient plays no part.

Example: A child crossing the street being pushed away by a man who saw the child in the path of a speeding car resulting in the death of the man but the salvation of the child. This man gave the gift of life to the child, whether the child recognized it as such or not. The child cannot give back this gift, nor can he go back in time to prevent it from being given. What is given is given, and it is based on the man who saved him, not on the child who was saved.

Ephesians 2:4-9
But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. For it is by grace (God’s unmerited favour towards us) you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves (through the faith of Him who saved us, not faith from ourselves), it is the gift of God— not by works (it is a gift and not a wage), so that no one can boast.

Most people do not read Ephesaisn 2:4-9 correctly.

Paul points out clearly:

  1. We have been saved someone else’s by faith, not our own.
  2. It is a gift of God, not a wage based on work.

Good words RanRan!

Good words, guys! I especially like the highlighted (bolded) portion of Ephesians there, Craig.

We were made alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions!


God cannot and will not believe for you. Your faith comes from hearing and by hearing the word of God.( Romans 10:17) God will not violate your will to believe in Him. You must choose Him by your own free will. :wink:

Hello all:

Absent for awhile so need to get back more actively. Know this though; my mind is NEVER very far from contemplating this fabulous doctrine. There are just so many splendid on-ramps to this idea; seeing the call of God as irrevocable is yet another. Seeing that word, “irrevocable” reminded me of one of my very favorite posts on this site which I have found of immense help; it in this heading (Discussion Affirmative) and is called “Impossibility of irrevocable solidification into evil” here…

Here Tom (the other Tom – who writes as TGB) holds that it is not conceivably possible that we can be irrevocably solidified into evil. (which is done, in common thought, by our selves and to ourselves…) So couple that idea with this one (ie God’s invitation NEVER expires or is revoked!) and you have a very dynamic picture of a) God’s relentlessness in pursuing us (this flatters us, and God risks appearing condescending; He does it anyway!!! very cool!) b) our eventually succumbing to the onslaught of God’s impassioned pursuit of us. So God NEVER tires in His efforts; we, ALL of us, eventually do - and we come back “home” where the Father waits with supper on the table!! (And doesn’t want to hear our pathetic excuses and apologies; He wants to CELEBRATE!)

However, there are those who read Paul a bit differently than do we, but it seems that for them to do so they must insist that Paul is an incredibly inept writer who simply says things he can not mean. For example, in Romans 8 Paul goes to astonishing lengths to provide a comprehensive list of all those things which are unable and will be unable to separate us from the love of God; Paul’s obvious point is that NOTHING can separate us. For those who deny UR then, they must think Paul FORGOT to mention the one thing that CAN separate us from God’s love; our depraved selves.

Silly Paul; bad writing.

So it does seem that the entirety of the argument against UR relates to this idea that we can eternally chose against God and that eventually God will wait no longer (either he decides not to wait longer, or he knows there will be no point in waiting longer) and so that state is sealed for eternity.

How this can be held in the face of the overwhelming certainty that scripture exudes of the totality/thoroughness/completeness of God’s victory at the Cross remains dumbfounding to me. A Victory which settles for leaving ANY one of God’s created sentient beings in the grave (hell or annihilation) is simply NOT a Total Victory.

Great thought RanRan and it triggers many other ideas as well (which will wait for another day)

aka Bobx3

It’s certainly repeated often enough that it has taken on a life of it own - but it’s the dull mantra of another gospel.

How, I ask it’s adherents, do you think the first century church conquered the world, almost overnight? Pagans all have parents (and babies) whom they loved, cherished and wished the best for in the after life. The message THEN was The Gospel (which IS unversalism) - they shall be saved. NOW we have the rather tepid, spineless gospel of ‘Pray for them (but don’t expect much - they were, after-all, pagans), meanwhile, save your own butt.’ What a difference a gospel makes.

Universalism is not a fad, a trend, a theory - it is the Gospel itself. I am convinced that we can help each other here gain that bold confidence in fulfilling our mission to the world in spreading the message…even to fence-sitters in Scotland - you know who you are. :wink:

Thanks for your kindness to me.

I hope you don’t mean me! I’ll have you know the fence on which I’m sitting is in WALES! (albeit the fence is under a foot of snow at the moment) :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:

Excuse this copy-and-paste job from ‘Creation’s Jubilee’ but I do like it :smiley:

And these verses must be clinchers :slight_smile:

So - no rebuttals to these verses - I will assume everyone agrees with them with a loud AMEN! :smiley:

:smiley: AMEN!!! :smiley:


NOT SO! :unamused:

So one or other of those 4 verses is untrue is it?

Don’t forget to invoke the ‘you aren’t a Christian’ rule will you?

Born Again has actually indirectly admitted he was a GNOSTIC. The secret knowledge of the Holy Spirit has bestowed upon him knowledge which contradicts what is written in the Scriptures but makes total sense to those with it’s secret power of understanding! In this topsy turvy world, yes means no, and no means yes! :laughing: