Excellent! Thanks for that choice of words.
And welcome to this Forum! Have you been ‘lurking’ unseen for awhile, or just happen to find us recently?
Recently. I’m not 100% convinced on “UR”, but for sure I do not believe in “ECT”. For me, salvation requires repentance, and I can’t help think how there are some people in this world who simply will never repent, be it in this age or in the coming ages. But we do see the tremendous ultimate triumph of Grace in Rev 7:9, with a great saved multitude which no man could number.
My thoughts on Luke 16:19:31.
Jesus’ Use of Parables
Mark 4:33-34.
*33 And with many such parables He spoke the word to them as they were able to hear it.
34 But [without] a [parable] He did not speak to them. And when they were alone, He explained all things to His disciples.
The rich man and Lazarus
Luke 16: 19-31.
The rich man clothed in purple and fine linen joyously living every day. In bible times purple clothing and fine linen was associated with the rich royalty as well as fine linen representing the priestly garments. Judah was the royal tribe of Israel, that very same tribe along with Benjamin in existence in Christ’s day.
Judah was chosen to fair sumptuously
In Gods blessing from who messiah would come. The rich man symbolic of those religious leaders of Judah.
The poor man named Lazarus was laid [outside] the rich mans gate covered with sores longing to be fed with the crumbs falling from the rich mans table, all the while the dogs came and licked his sores. It is interesting to note, that in the book of Leviticus, anyone breaking out in skin lesions, sores etc was cast [outside] the camp,Very reminiscent of the poor man Laying [outside] the rich mans gate. The poor mans dwellings was amongst the dogs, all the while desiring to be fed crumbs from the rich mans table. Gentiles were referred to as dogs and this poor mans dwellings was as good as amongst the unclean gentiles. In fact he found more comfort amongst the unclean dogs licking his wounds than from his own people who were supposed to be looking out for his spiritual welfare. The religious leaders of Christ’s day had spiralled into self righteous hypocrites, thinking themselves far better, and above there own people who were treated as out casts,[ie] the drunkards and prostitutes.These hypocrites twisted the Torah Laws of Moses to serve there own sinful gain all the while the desperate and needy Jews were neglected, even though they was desiring tiny particles of spiritual feeding. They had to beg for any spiritual crumbs just like the gentiles Matt 15:26.
The death of both these men and being in Hades i believe is very symbolic of life [after] death [ie] after the resurrection to judgment. Not life whilst dead as many would believe. It’s truly symbolic of the reversal of favour [after] judgment. The neglected Jews find rest and comfort in Abraham’s bosom. All the while the rich man is in torments. Those with skin diseases in life had to stand afar off watching those enjoy there sumptuous life, while they themselves were cast [outside] suffering in pain, deemed unclean/riddled with sores being a type/ shadow of sin in the flesh. Now it’s the turn of the rich man to suffer the same fate, he is to be vexed/ tormented while looking on from afar off, all the while the poor man rests in comfort. Just as there was a great gulf in life that had existed between the spiritual abusers and the spiritually poor [ie] it was impossible for the poor man to even dream of filling himself at the rich mans table, so now its impossible for the rich man to be filled, whilst the poor man sits at the table feast eating with Abraham. How so ?? Well Luke 13: 25-29 explains.
25 Once the owner of the house gets up and closes the door, you will stand [outside] knocking and pleading, ‘Sir, open the door for us.’“But he will answer, ‘I don’t know you or where you come from.’
26 “Then you will say, ‘We ate and drank with you, and you taught in our streets.’
27 “But he will reply, ‘I don’t know you or where you come from. Away from me, all you evildoers!’
28 “There will be [weeping] there, and [gnashing] of teeth, when you [see] [Abraham], Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out.
29 People will come from east and west and north and south, and will take their places at the [feast] in the kingdom of God.
The door will be closed and the great gulf will be fixed and the punishment will be served.[outside] the kingdom/ outside the city [gates] in Gehenna fire.
Revelation 21:8
8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death / a k a Gehenna fire *[out side the city walls]
The rich man pleads for his five brothers in his fathers house to be warned of this coming judgment/ this awful place. Note Judah had five full brothers. The rich man wants the rest of Judah his Fathers house to be warned. Although his request of one coming back from the dead will happen at Christ’s resurrection, It’s a Hopeless case for them,for they grossly abused the laws of Mosses and miss read the prophets concerning their messiah, they to will follow. Not even after Christ’s resurrection
did they believe, and after the point of Stevens stoning, the Gentiles also get to feast at Abraham’s table along with those spiritually neglected Jews [ie] the poor man and the dogs together.
What becomes of the rich man ???
“ he [ the rich man] LIFTED up his eyes” very much like one would do if they were to be demoted to a lower seat at a wedding banquet Luke 14:8-9.
[being in torments] [basanos] a touch stone used to test the [ purity] of metals, by rubbing the metal on the [stone] This was not any old stone, it had to be a certain stone that was smooth but rough enough to produce a powder from the Metal when rubbed against it.Then the powder streak left could be compared to the true steak of powder already on the stone from the genuine metal to compare its purity. Christ said of himself referring to the psalms, that he would be the [stone] the builders rejected. Anyone who falls on the [stone] will be broken, but any one this [stone] falls on will be ground to powder. Breaking into pieces is not as harsh as being ground into a powder, a lot more pounding is required in the second instance, judgment begins at the house of God, those being judged, tried and tested now etc… can find it very heard and unpleasant at times, this judgment is a kind judgment were one is broken into pieces, the following judgment will be to grind into powder a lot harsher… but to produce the same result. what do I mean by this ? [basanos] can also refer to the torture rack where one is tortured to divulge [the truth] and that is exactly what will happen in this judgment, for ALL will bow the knee and confess Christ is Lord of all.
In Luke 16:24.
We see that the word tormented, is not the same as in vr 23 [odunao] = tormented with sorrow/ in grief not being burned alive forever !!!. the [single] flame is symbolic of a flame of refinement, that is allotted to all after judgment. Each person will have there own [single flame] to bear, each will have an individual refining process to achieve a pure heart. The rich man was alone in his torments, no others are mentioned around him, this is an isolated judgment, that each individual will have to bear, out side of Christ’s sacrifice for forgiveness, and [out side] the city walls.
Luke 13: 30
“Indeed there are those who are last who will be first, and first who will be last.”
Matt 21:31 [b]
“Assuredly, I say to you that tax collectors and harlots enter the kingdom of God before you / ahead of you.
The tax collectors and harlots go into the kingdom [ahead] not [instead] of you.Those who were meant to be first will enter last. There entrance is not denied forever.
So, what is your point? You put a great amount of information without a resolution.
I don’t think I was trying to [drive] home a point.’I stated Before I started the post, they were my [thoughts] on the parable of the rich man and Lazarus. I would say my main thoughts were aimed at the parable not being a real account, and in my opinion it isn’t teaching E/T, neither is it teaching life after death outside of the resurrection hope. Also the last verses giving hope for U/R, even in the rich mans case [ie] they go [ahead] into the kingdom and not [instead]. Just my thoughts.
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No offense, but you were/are trying to write a freekin book…
Look we all are whores and derelicts… Until we can see this, we will have a problem understanding God and what his son Jesus did. As to the understanding of universal reconciliation, we will have to make our own decisions, and live by them because many will attack you once you make and proclaim that position. But be assured, you have allies, many / most of us here understand that God did not create humanity to be obliterated. While we may differ in opinion as to what God’s ultimate goal is, we agree it is something that is beyond eternal freaking torture or just snuffing out a life.
So We are at peace with those ideas. Good luck and Peace.
No offence taken. Maybe the forum etiquette is to keep posts shorter and more to the point, and that is certainly a point I will take on board.I don’t suppose you would be interested in reading vol 2 then 
No you have every right posting what you want as I do. I appreciate your way. Yes, some have different ideas, but that is what makes the forum exciting and informative. I look forward to vol 2 