The Evangelical Universalist Forum

The Purge: Election Year, Hypocrisy, and The Nature Of God

Since you ask, Holy-Fool-P-Zombie, I think a more prosperous Mexico is a more stable Mexico. I am very thankful for the trade deals that have favored Mexico, and so I gladly accept that some of those gains could contribute to a wall. (I am in the minority, so I avoid talking politics, as a general rule.)

People regularly come through my city traveling illegally from Central America to the US border. Most who make that attempt are desperate, just like the people fleeing Syria. However, the drug cartels firmly control the “side business” of helping illegal aliens cross the porous border—but they rape, enslave, and kill their customers with impunity.

For me, the paramount political issue is the protection of the weak (e.g., children, retarded, elderly, prisoners). As I indicate above in my essay, I oppose eugenics. I can only believe God’s favor—including health, peace, and prosperity—is more likely to be seen where life is honored over death.

Holding your nose is one thing - paying for the tearing apart of LIVE human babies in the partial birth abortion racket - is another thing entirely, and HILLARY IS FOR IT.

The problem is - we know Hillary - for 30 years now. She has failed utterly in almost all her endeavors, is anti-women, and wants to add her version of Hillary care (which also failed utterly) to the failing and corrupt ObamaCare (ACA).

The black community, the poor, and women will be much better off without another 8 years of Obama. (actually it will be 8 years of the native american Elizabeth Warren).

I have not drunk the kool-aid for Trump, either. But I know her - we all do if our eyes are open - and we MIGHT have a chance with Trump.

There are of course more than enough low-information voters in this country to get her elected, with the media’s help of course.

Millions more are without health insurance, and many more will be with the HUGE built-in increases in cost of coverage and deductibles that were designed to kick in the year after Obama was out of office. The big insurers are backing out of the ACA.
By all means let us have universal care for everyone - we all want that, and it is a disgrace that we don’t. But the ill-conceived ACA is not the way to do it.

On another note, from Dr. Ablow:
"And while we debate who touched whom and when and where and if at all, our enemies can be plotting to blow us up.

And while we talk about a candidate’s genitals, we might miss the fact that the candidate has been talking about bringing us back to reality in more productive ways — like getting us back to work, restoring the physical borders that define our nation, delivering lifesaving health care to our ailing and dying veterans and arming our military against radical Islamic terrorism.

As far as I’m concerned, I’d like to watch all that happen, instead of watching adult entertainment that masquerades as news."
-http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2016/10/28/dr-keith-ablow-why-are-americans-obsessed-with-sex-now-more-than-ever.html

There is a challenge to your claim of people being covered:
forbes.com/sites/scottgottli … bab1ec777f

I’m happy for each person that has gotten insurance, although my happiness is somewhat tempered by the fact that they are subsidized by other Americans - mainly middle-class - in what can legitimately be called a 're-distribution of wealth". Saul Alinsky made the takeover of the health care system THE key to radicalizing the government. Hillary wrote her thesis on Alinski - and she has publicly called for ACA to fail so that she could move us into a one-payer system - Alinski must be on cloud 9.
I don’t see anything to stop her.

Ok. You’re welcome to your opinion.
I’m not a right-winger, btw.

That whole ‘being okay with redistribution’ thing, though - well, a topic for another time I guess. Who re-distributes? Do you trust ANYONE to do that justly, with lack of bias, and that is willing to live without the rich capitalists who make our way of life possible? Or should we take their money and re-distribute, before they can leave the country? I dunno, qaz…I think that would be a bad direction in which to go.
Less government, imo= a good thing.

I’m not sure of that at all. “From each according to his ability, to each according to his need” is a recipe for dehumanizing people. Those that are the receivers of a forced largesse become dependent on said largesse, and can be said to ‘flourish’ only at the behest of power-holders - and those power holders are the biggest fear I have. They - power holders - will not be altruistic - yes I’m speculating - they have their own interests in mind, they want to stay in power and, once the thing that ‘constitutes’ us is made irrelevant - the Constitution, which Obama studied in order to find its weaknesses and exploit them - once that is irrelevant - who determines what is the correct ‘progress’ towards forced equality?

Sure, I know that flourishing is only possible when there is a modicum of security and health, but those in themselves are no surety against dissipation; and the truth remains that what is really ‘ours’ is only what we have earned. A hand up instead of a hand-down, as Obama famously said and immediately refuted in actions.

I do not oppose measures that enable people to be healthy, get an education if such a thing is even possible in America any longer, and to have equality of opportunity. What I do oppose is the, to me, naive idea that those entrusted with the illegal, forced ‘sharing’ of wealth would in fact do it in any kind of equitable way that actually would bear REAL flourishing in the long run. In other words, handing out candy will get you re-elected, but what is needed is actual investment in real goals.

Ach, I’m sleepy, off to bed. Good talking with you.

qaz wrote:

Well, I would say that you are an idealist and have very little world experience. Most people who take your stance either

A: Are in an economic place where the re distribution would help them out or
B: Are in a place where the re distribution would really not have an effect on them.

Health insurance is just another step on the ladder of a broken yet maybe well intentioned social help system. Case in point,

When I moved into the Ozark mountain area here in the U.S. I was astounded by the lack of initiative of many of the people I know and work with, to the point that a staggering number of these folks would rather find a way to get a disability check than work a minimum wage job. This leads to all kinds of conversations about cultures and need for education reforms etc. It also in many cases leads to substance abuse and crime in very high numbers.

But at the end of the day, when both mom and dad, work their butt off every day, feed and cloth the kids (sometimes having to resort to second hand stores) Eat as healthy as they can, live healthy lifestyles, don’t go to the doctor unless they have to because they can not afford it, and if they do have to go, THEY PAY THEIR BILLS. Many of these hard working families barely have enough at the end of the day. To have a government say that they HAVE to start paying many hundreds if not thousands of dollars a month for health insurance so in their eyes the deadbeats who do not want to work / are too lazy to re educate themselves so they can advance, have affordable health care, is daunting at best.

AS a note, most hard working people do not have ANY problem helping those in need. They are exasperated when they see the waste and how hard they have to work to keep their head above water. Every dollar (to these folks) they have to give to others is a dollar they take from their own families mouths.

qaz wrote:

And many would say that is idolatry, because you put your trust in another god. :unamused:

You’d have a much better chance in hell.

Okay. No chance with Hillary, and no chance with Trump.
Any property for sale in Canada? :smiley:

Look at it this way. Both have made good VP choices. So our best change is to have either one win, but find something to impeach them on. Then the VP choice becomes the president. :laughing:

Ok, let’s tax the hell out of the wealthy - wealth being the goal of the middle-class, btw, and of the poor for that matter.
Then what? The wealty leave - they are citizens of the world - and take wealth with them. Never mind some have earned it. Then they take their businesses elsewhere, as has already begun. God forbid Trump gets elected and lowers tax rates on companies, thus giving them more capital to expand their business and hire people. Gosh, no - instead, let’s tax them higher and while we are at it, let Hillary add 1 trillion dollars more tax burden on the backs of American people. Those tax dollars will help pay for the open borders, and perhaps clean up the mess after the terrorists mixed in with the flood of immigrants have blown the crap out of shopping malls, theaters etc. Then after she appoints ‘liberal’ judges, has the DOJ under her thumb, and uses the FBI for her own ends, we will have, I guess, a benevolent despot? She’s already stated she will go beyond the criminal Obama in her use of Presidential executive orders - hmm, there go my guns. At least the criminals will have them.
Maybe she can shrink the military - maybe all we need is two men with slingshots, after all. Since America is the origin of all evil in the world - let the hordes rush in and give us a good whuppin’. We deserve it, and we deserve Hillary.

HFPZ - :laughing: :laughing:

edited to remove one word.

Well as brazen and contentious as Mr Trump is, maybe that is the very thing that is needed to ignite the working people. In his own way, Trump is like the union stalwarts of old, trying to unite a class of people that are needing to be organized or will go out of existence. The middle class is what made this country great and it’s dwindling is the death toll of the nation. These are the hard working, industrious, innovative, truthful advancement seeking, trustworthy folks that also cherish family, friends, relationships, community.

And to address Dave’s statement, most of these people I just mentioned when they get into a position of owning a business, will be likely to share the profit and help advance everyone involved. But this group of people are growing scarcer and thinner.

And the reason is regulations and government restrictions. So maybe the Don can help there also :question: :laughing:

There are always those who want to take advantage of the common people, and maybe Mr. Trump is the sort of person we the common people need. :open_mouth:

Just a thought.

You bet your bottom dollar! :laughing:

You gotta look at how they get there.

During the industrial revolution, after the union wars, it was understood that the
greatest profit and productivity was with those who where compensated for their time/skills.

Men and Women who were industrious, hardworking, trustworthy were put into positions of advancement and they and their families were rewarded for the hard work. They enjoyed good wages and benefits.

As government restriction grew, (to help a class of folks that could not see fit to help themselves) these industrious folks were called upon to increasingly provide more and more of their profits to go to the needy of our society. As this needy group grew, our productive society (manufacturing) found it easier to take their labor to foreign places than to try to deal with a bizarre bureaucracy.

And thus we have a problem in U.S.A. :cry:

qaz

But if we think from the framers of our constitution that governmental interference would provide for the common welfare and defense and the economical societal benefit of our nation and working force, why do we choose not to do such a thing?

Consider this:
No matter what our kids and the new generation think about us, WE ARE AWESOME !!! OUR Lives are LIVING PROOF !!!

TO ALL THE KIDS WHO SURVIVED THE 1930s, '40s, '50s, '60s and '70s!!

First, we survived being born to mothers who may have smoked and/or drank while they were pregnant.

They took aspirin, ate blue cheese dressing, tuna from a can, and didn’t get tested for diabetes.

Then, after that trauma, we were put to sleep on our tummies in baby cribs covered with bright colored lead-based paints.

We had no childproof lids on medicine bottles, locks on doors or cabinets, and, when we rode our bikes, we had baseball caps, not helmets, on our heads.

As infants and children, we would ride in cars with no car seats, no booster seats, no seat belts, no air bags, bald tires and sometimes no brakes…

Riding in the back of a pick- up truck on a warm day was always a special treat.

We drank water from the garden hose and not from a bottle.

We shared one soft drink with four friends, from one bottle, and no one actually died from this.

We ate cupcakes, white bread, real butter, and bacon. We drank Kool-Aid made with real white sugar. And we weren’t overweight. WHY?

Because we were always outside playing…that’s why!

We would leave home in the morning and play all day, as long as we were back when the streetlights came on. No one was able to reach us all day. --And, we were OKAY.

We would spend hours building our go-carts out of scraps and then ride them down the hill, only to find out we forgot the brakes… After running into the bushes a few times, we learned to solve the problem…

We did not have Play Stations, Nintendos and X-boxes. There were no video games, no 150 channels on cable, no video movies or DVDs, no surround-sound or CDs, no cell phones, no personal computers, no Internet and no chat rooms.

WE HAD FRIENDS and we went outside and found them!

We fell out of trees, got cut, broke bones and teeth, and there were no lawsuits from those accidents.

We would get spankings with wooden spoons, switches, ping-pong paddles, or just a bare hand, and no one would call child services to report abuse.

We ate worms, and mud pies made from dirt, and the worms did not live in us forever.

We were given BB guns for our 10th birthdays, 22 rifles for our 12th, rode horses,made up games with sticks and tennis balls, and

-although we were told it would happen- we did not put out very many eyes.

We rode bikes or walked to a friend’s house and knocked on the door or rang the bell, or just walked in and talked to them.

Little League had tryouts and not everyone made the team. Those who didn’t had to learn to deal with disappointment.

Imagine that!!

The idea of a parent bailing us out if we broke the law was unheard of. They actually sided with the law!

These generations have produced some of the best risk-takers, problem solvers, and inventors ever.

The past 50 to 85 years have seen an explosion of innovation and new ideas…

We had freedom, failure, success and responsibility, and we learned how to deal with it all.

If YOU are one of those born between 1925-1970, CONGRATULATIONS! :open_mouth: :smiley:

This was from an e-mail from Jay Leno

Let me dedicate a song, to the US election winner and our country. :laughing:

or

youtube.com/watch?v=zUQiUFZ5RDw

Excellent choice HFPZ :mrgreen:

If elected, Trump will be the chief person to take advantage of you the common people in order to stuff the purses of the fat cats like himself.

Then he and Hillary have that in common - IF you are right.

Thus, the choice for you poor U.S. citizens is between bad and worse!