So I will ask, do you believe that the scriptures show/tell of post mortem correction? Or do you think all of these things are talking about people in the here and now… on earth breathing living experiencing?
I only ask because you go from Isaiah who is prophesying about Israel to Peter and Paul who are talking about a people who are under a new covenant.
Or do you think all of the OT and NT scriptures are applicable to us today? And that the major and minor prophets’ words are written to us here in 2017?
I believe in every age the fire is the available light in every life. Only God knows. Only God can judge “their consceince either accusing or excusing them on the Day when God judges the secrets of men’s hearts through Jesus Christ”.
An Old Testament person will stand in the presence of God, where light is fire to darkness, and every hidden thing will be revealed, and that process(in my view) is the correction. A New Testament person will be judged by whatever light they have received of it, and only God knows what was available and received and what was rejected. That is why it is by “the secrets of their hearts” from their conscience- which is an open book for all in the presence of God.
We are aware we stand before His throne now, if we believe-“For it is time for judgment to begin at the house of God with the elders in Jerusalem”…“Therefore let not many of you be teachers for as such you will incur stricter judgment, and we all stumble in many ways”
So the light and the fire are pouring from Him as glory and as purging fire and exposing light in everyone who believes. The same light is calling out to all who do not, “Come let us reason together, though your sins be as scarlet I will make them white as snow.” “Come all you who thirst, drink freely of the water of life”
But as I read there will also be work left to do for many post mortem, but we are not given the details of that work, but we are given much about the nature of it. It will be the same in nature as the fire and light that bring sinners to Him now in life. it will be the same in nature as that which purges those who have bowed the knee.
That nature is remedial, it is to dissolve veils and to melt false foundations and to disarm principalities and powers. It is to slay Leviathan and birth the Lamb.
So yes, I do believe in post mortem correction, but not in the form or nature of man’s punishment, to “pay back” or “pay for” sins done- “pain remitted for pain performed”. I see it as peeling back the layers of deception and lies and rebellion to to the pure mind of Christ- a revelation of Christ crucified- which is the ultimate purity, and many, when they see it, will gnash their teeth and weep and wail as the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ exposes the hidden things…until they repent, which they will, because love never fails, and light overcomes darkness in the end.
Havent you ever writhed under the conviction of the Holy Spirit as the light probed into your deep inner consciousness to reveal that which was hidden from view? The wood hay and stubble that had been considered gold silver and precious stone?
I certainly have and I am not at all ashamed to say it. The nature of the fire as it exposes and brings the alloys to the surface of the gold being purified is remedial, but very uncomfortable. Sometimes the heat must be very, very hot before I can see that what I considered gold was only brass upon lead. That what I thought was silver was merely iron.
I think it works like that upon the threshing floor of life, and so it will also for those whose names are not written in the Lamb’s book of life, standing before Him in the age to come.
It is not one or the other. It is a continual unfolding of the same core principle of life and truth and love revealed in its fulness in Jesus Christ. Go to the core, and all the layers become one in an unfolding revelation. Separate the layers and you have nothing but smoke and mirrors. A rosebud is not a separate thing from the full bloom but if you never saw the bud you might think it “another thing” entirely. It is one thing unfolding, the same principles of life flowing through the process.
“Therefore we have the prophetic word made more sure to which you do well to pay attention as a lamp shining in a dark place until the day dawns and the daystar arises in your hearts.” “If anyone has nt believed our gospel it is because the God of this world has veiled the eyes of them that they might not understand the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ”…
“To this day when Moses is read the veil remains”… but for those in whom the veil has been removed there is no veil when Moses is read, it is just a part and parcel of the mirror, “and we all, beholding as in a morror the glory of the Lord are being transformed with ever-increasing(progressive) glory by the Spirit who is the Lord.”
Sorry Eagle my bad… I had that in mind as you’d said this…
And seemingly now backed up by this…
I think it is wholly amazing you can say all this above about the LoF etc having prefaced it with what I think is the key point and honest admission on the whole issue, in saying this…
How can you have strung all that together above with the prior acknowledgment of such scarce evidence…? What’s that old saying? “Where Scripture is silent, so should we be.”
I agree when it comes to people trying to say exactly when, what the LOF or Gehenna is. But the scriptures arent silent. There are just not clear, so I just dont think we should be so adamant about the details.
As far as the nature of the fire of God I think that is pretty plain from a ton of scripture and I barely tapped them. Virtually every vision of God involves fire, lightning, coals, etc, and this is considered “bad” because of religious prejudices and a lack of illumination and thoroughness concerning the whole topical context. Fire is the source of light. It consumes, transforms, purifies, illuminates, and yes, sometimes it destroys- but only that which is temporal. A comparison of Daniel 7:10; Isaiah 6:4; Ezekiel 10 and Zecharia 3 with Rev 1:4 and Rev 6:9-11 and Rev 14;10 share an immense amount of parallels. Those images transcend their dispensations because they are views of the center from various points around the layers of the onion. There is one center, many perspectives, varyng parameters, apertures and portals. Supposedly, we in the new covenant have the widest portal available, in general up to this time. It has been opening in stages all along. “And the heavens were opened and I saw visions of God”. Soon the veil of the heavens will be rolled back like a scroll and “every eye will see Him”, but in the center of the onion what created all that has already taken place.
I think it is very possible, even likely, that the verses in Ephesians 4:9-11 and 1 Peter 3;19 and 4:6 refer to Jesus having appeared to those who were in death before Him. For instance, in Isaiah 6 it says, “I saw the Lord high and lifted up and His train filled the temple”. In Eph 4 It speaks of He who descended being He who ascended “leading captivity captive” or “with captives in His train”- that He might “fill all things”. Also there are the saints who came out of the graves in Matt 27:52.
Thats why the view from the center and the views from various points around the onion and between the layers at various depths must take one another into account. In a sense time is peeling back towards its origin(Alpha) at the same time it is filling up to fulness(Omega). The Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world. Christ crucified was the first thought/word(Logos) of God. All the worlds and ages were created out of it with the end in mind that all would conclude in full freedom of communion, family, unity, oneness, freedom, etc. “That when the times are filled/complete(pleroma) all things will be gathered into one in Christ”. The reason everyone weeps when they see Christ crucified is because the perfection of that love slays all our filthy rags and makes us aware how and how much He loves. The reason everyone will rejoice after they weep is because all the mists and veils and webs and bonds will be dissolved in the fire of His Day.
I am thinking now is a good time to quote from the book that the OP was named after.
From the ragamuffin gospel; page199-200
“The kingdom of my Father cannot be overcome, even by death. In the end everything will be alright. Nothing can harm you permanently; no loss is lasting, no defeat more than transitory, no disappointment is conclusive. Suffering, failure, loneliness, sorrow, discouragement, and death will be part of your journey, but the kingdom of God will conquer all these horrors. No evil can resist grace forever.”
