The Evangelical Universalist Forum

The Restitution Of All Things

It doesn’t matter how many manuscript copies of the Greek NT there are. Most of them are incorrect in many verses. It is much more likely that the manuscripts copied prior to A.D. 300 coincide with what the NT writers actually wrote.

I am blessed to possess a book which contains copies of ALL extant Greek manuscripts of the NT which were copied prior to A.D. 300. It is one of my most treasured books. I consult it whenever there is a question about what was actually written.

So do you think that director was correct in that assessment?

Consider 1 John 5:7 as found in the AV:

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

This verse is not found in ANY Greek manuscript dating prior to A.D 1600. It was doubtless added by someone who wanted to get Trinitarianism into the New Testament. Yet it is found in Textus Receptus from which the King James Bible was translated.

FL, we HAVE TO discern what was truly written by the NT authors, and not presume that all Greek manuscripts are so close to one another, that any one of them is valid.

Dear Paidion: It would seem to me, the followers of the Lamb must know His voice in the inner sanctum. Original copies (of the copies of the copies) may fall short, the anointing of the Spirit does not.

One question: how do you know your book of extant Greek manuscripts are prior 300 A.D.?

There are experts who have the means of dating these manuscripts—not to the very year, but approximately.

The book I have is entitled, “The Text of the Earliest New Testament Greek Manuscripts.” The book is edited by Phillp W. Comfort, and David P. Barrett. The approximate date is given for each manuscript. For example, Papyrus 66 (housed at Geneva, Switzerland) is dated “the middle of the second century” (about A.D. 150).

There is a section in the Introduction which reads, “We chose A.D. 300 as our terminus ad quem because New Testament manuscript production changed radically after the persecution under Diocletian (A.D. 303-305)…”

Also in the Introduction, the ways in which manuscripts are dated,is described.

The problem with that is that there are many diverse beliefs—whose believers all claim to their enlightenment as coming to them through the Spirit. Yet these beliefs are not consistent with one another. Thus at least some of these believers must have been mistaken in thinking that the Spirit revealed these things to them.

Dear Paidion: much thanks for your response.

The “experts”, whoever they are may fail, the anointing does not. In the final analysis one must know Him & rest with absolute assurance in His guiding Hand.

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The Fatherhood Of Abba

“I believe implicitly in the ultimate and complete triumph of God, the time when all things shall be subject to Him and when God will be everything to everyone (1 Cor 15:24-28). For me, this has certain consequences. If one man remains outside of the love of God at the end of time, it means that one man has defeated the love of God—and that is impossible. Further, there is only one way in which we can think of the triumph of our God. If God was no more than a King or judge, then it would be possible to speak of his triumph, if His enemies were agonizing in hell or were totally and completely obliterated and wiped out. But God is not only king and Judge, God is Father—He is indeed Father more than anything else. No father could be happy while there were members of his family for ever in agony. No father would count it a triumph to obliterate the disobedient members of his family. The only triumph a father can know is to have all of his family back home again.” –Dr. William Barclay-

“Thou, O Father, wilt not be angry with thy child because he thought—and tried to bid others to think just and noble things of thee; though, O Savior, wilt not frown at him because he trusted in the infinitude of thy compassion; and thou, O Holy Spirit, whose image is the soft stealing of the dew and the golden hovering of the dove, wilt know that if he erred it was because he fixed his eyes, not on the glaring and baleful meteors of anathematizing orthodoxy, but on the star of Bethlehem and the clouds that began to shine above the coming of the Lord; and that—if perchance he erred—the light which led astray was light from Heaven.” –Canon F.W. Farrar-

“The Spirit of the Lord speaks within my soul and says, “Within the breast of every man is the divine image of God (living God), in whose image and likeness he was made, that sin is a perversion and sickness an imposter, and that the grace and power of God through the Holy Ghost delivers man from all bondage and darkness, and man in all his nature rises into union and communion with God and becomes one with Him in the truest sense.” –John G. Lake-)

“Give them not hell, but hope and courage. Preach the everlasting love of God.”– John Murray-

“The fact remains—we are God’s offspring, created from a foundation of goodness that has gone wrong. History since the Garden is the gradual story of how God is slowly putting that wrongness right…and will continue to do so.” –Michael Phillips-

“For myself I can say, that if there is a God, and he is such a being as [the Universalist] describes, I can bow before him and give him all my heart. He says God is love, made the world in love, and in perfect wisdom, and well adapted to serve the divine purpose. He then made a family, all of them have sinned, and some of them have fallen very low, but God is determined, according to [the Universalist], to stand by His family, every one of them, let come what will come, till he makes all of them respectable. This standing by His family, as every true Father ought to do, is what I like in [the Universalist’s]idea of God. But if there is a God, and he has created a family and will at last turn against most of them, and in burning wrath cast them into Hell forever, as [traditional Christianity] describe(s), I should hate him—he is not as good as I am, for I propose to stand by my family and every member of it for as long as I live. It is an insult to ask me to love and worship a God who is guilty of doing what we would detest in an earthly father.” –Robert Ingersoll

“I believe that justice and mercy are simply one and the same thing. [I believe] such is the mercy of God that he will hold his children in the consuming fire of his distance until they pay the uttermost farthing, until they drop the purse of selfishness with all the dross that is in it, and rush home to the Father and the Son, and the many brethren, rush inside the center of the life-giving fire whose outer circles burn. I believe that no hell will be lacking which would help the just mercy of God to redeem his children.” - George MacDonald-

Suppose it were offered to the father of three children to take his choice whether two should be received into heaven and one condemned to Hell, or the whole should be annihilated unto death. What would a parent say? Where is the father who would dare secure the bliss of two children at the cost of the endless misery of one? Which of the family would he select as the victim, whose undying pain should secure his brother’s joy? Is there any one living who would not suffer himself and his children to sink back again into nothingness, rather than purchase heaven at such a price? --Thomas Allin, Christ Triumphant-

“…Nothing can be lost that is not first owned. Just as a parent is compelled by civil law to be responsible for his family and his property, so the Creator --by His own divine law–in compelled to take care of the children He has created. And that means not only caring for the good children, but for the bad ones and lost ones as well. So the word lost came to be for Mrs. Smith, a term of greatest comfort. If a person is a “lost sinner” it only means that he is temporarily separated from the Good Shepherd who owns him. The Shepherd is bound by all duties of ownership to go after all those who are lost until they are found.” -Catherine Marshall (Beyond Ourselves)

“God will seek us – how long? Until he finds us. And when he’s found the last little shriveling rebellious soul and has depopulated hell, then death will be swallowed up in victory, and Christ will turn over all things to the Father that he may be all and in all. Then every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.” -Clarence Jordan - (founder of Koinonia Community)-

“It is often remarked by those who oppose the doctrine of universal salvation, that if God is the Savior of all men, then there is no difference between the saint and the sinner, the believer and unbeliever. Those who make this remark, seem to forget, that while God is declared to be the Savior of all men, he is also said to be ESPECIALLY the Savior of the believer. Though it is true, that God is the Savior of all, yet a little more attention would teach you, that all along, in Scripture, there is a salvation held forth as the SPECIAL PROPERTY of the believer, in which the unbeliever can have no part or lot. Though all shall be saved with an everlasting salvation, yet the believer ALONE can enjoy this special salvation.” -Rev. I. D. Williamson-

If this is not the post of all time, well I digress… :grin:

Or maybe, just maybe… God works outside of our current understanding. Just a thought.

FL - that was a heap of hope in that last post. Thanks for that.

“No more let sins and sorrows grow,
nor thorns infest the ground;
he comes to make his blessings flow
far as the curse is found,
far as the curse is found,
far as, far as the curse is found.”-Isaac Watts-

Dear DaveB2.0: You are indeed correct, the declarations of these righteous members of Father’s House provide us with exceeding hope indeed! Yes, a heap of hope!



God’s Silence 6

Adam’s Punishment 6

Cain’s Punishment 8

The Antediluvians 9

The Deluge 9

Sodom and Gomorrah 10

The Testimony of Scholars 12

The Promise to Adam 15

The Promise to Abraham 16

The Promises to Obedient 19

The Threats to Wicked 21

Gathered to their Fathers 22

The Spirit Returns to God 23

The Fate of Amnon 23

Knowledge of God Gives Peace 25

God’s Anger is Limited 25

God’s Mercy is Unlimited 27

The Testimony of the Prophets 27

Universal Obedience 28

Man’s Infirmity Doubts God’s Goodness 28

Universal Dominion 29

The Prophet Isaiah 29

God’s Word Conquers 30

Jeremiah 31

Hosea 31

Micah 32

Daniel 32

The Wise Woman 32

A Refiner 33

The Name Jesus 34

The Word Gospel 35

The First Christmas Anthem 35

John the Baptist 36

An Incident and its Lesson 36

Be Like God 38

The Lord’s Prayer 40

The Universal Fatherhood 40

The Good Samaritan 45

The Gospel Leaven 46

The Jewish Leaven 46

All the Lost are to be Saved 47

Ninety and Nine (Poem) 49

Christ Will Accomplish His Mission 50

The Resurrection 56

The Resurrection to Damnation 58

The Nature of Punishment 65

The Prayer of Jesus for His Murderers 66

God the Creator 68

God’s Holiness 69

God’s Mercy 69

God’s Justice 70

God’s Omniscience 73

God’s Omnipotence 74

God’s Love 75

God’s Attributes Unlimited 77

God’s Power Unlimited 78

God’s Wisdom Unlimited 78

God’s Love Unlimited 79

God’s Will, Pleasure, Purpose, Promise and Oath 80

You Must be Born Again 88

A Conditional Promise Fulfilled 88

Sin Burned, Sinners Saved 88

Every Soul Worth Saving 88

Comfort for All 88

Heaven’s Joys Certain 89

The Substance of Things Hoped For 89

The Wickedest Saved 89

The Image of God 90

Paul’s Hope 92

The Glad Tidings of God 92

The Universe shall be Delivered from Sin 93

What God will not do 94

What God will do 94

Sin, Satan, Death and Hell Destroyed 94

All Shall be Righteous 95

All Destined to God 97

The People were Astonished 98

Universal Pardon and Obedience 98

Christ Cancels Adam 99

A Healthful Doctrine 99

No More Sorrow 100

Universal Obedience Prophesied 100

The Universal Propitiation 100

Their Works Follow Them 100

The Building of God Sure 102

God Hates Sin 102

God All in All 102

God’s Glory 103

God A Universal Savior 103

Why Paul was Persecuted 104

All are to be Righteous 104

The Final Consummation 105


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Of course He does. But how does that fact relate to my post? And what is there about my post that led you to sarcastically call it “the post of all time”?

You don’t understand… I was and am on your side as to the post. Sorry our history has made you suspect of my every post. I will try to rectify that.

You said:

Paidion said:
The problem with that is that there are many diverse beliefs—whose believers all claim to their enlightenment as coming to them through the Spirit. Yet these beliefs are not consistent with one another. Thus at least some of these believers must have been mistaken in thinking that the Spirit revealed these things to them.

And I agree, also stating this was one of the greatest posts I’ve seen. Simple as that. :wink:

I like you. :smile:

1 Like

Sorry I misinterpreted you, Chad.

No problem. Don Love you, and we will tally as stuff happens.

J. Preston Eby

Kingdom Bible Studies Savior of the World Series Part 1

Gary Amarault & Preston Eby video

I don’t believe Jesus pre existed.

Welcome to the forum, Nesto! Good to ‘see’ some new faces here now and then.

Dear Nesto: I am rather new to the forum as well, but as a fellow new member>>>>


The message of the Prophets rings in our ears!

The Hum of all hums=

The Prophets

“He shall come down like rain upon the mown grass; as showers that water the earth. In his days shall the righteous flourish: and abundance of peace so long as the moon endures. He shall have dominion from sea to sea, and from the river unto the ends of the earth.” Ps. 72: 6-8.

" All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the Lord; and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before you." Ps. 22: 27.

" All nations whom you have made shall come and worship before you, O Lord; and shall glorify your name. "Ps. 86: 9.

"Will the Lord cast off for ever? and will he be favorable no more? Is his mercy clean gone forever? does his promise fail for evermore? Has God forgotten to be gracious? has he in anger shut up his tender mercies? Selah.

And I said, This is my infirmity: but I will remember the years of the right hand of the Most High." - Ps. 77: 10.

“For he says, The Lord is merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and plenteous in mercy. He will not always chide: neither will he keep his anger forever”. Ps. 103: 9.

“For his anger endures but a moment; in his favor is life: weeping may endure for a night, but joy comes in the morning.” Ps. 30: 5.

“If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments; if they break my statutes, and keep not my
commandments; then will I visit their transgressions with the rod, and their iniquities with stripes, nevertheless my loving kindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail.” Ps. 89: 30-33.

“The Lord is gracious and full of compassion; slow to anger and of great mercy. The Lord is good to all and his tender mercies are over all his works.” Ps. 165: 8, 9.

" All nations whom you have made shall come and worship before you, O Lord, and shall glorify your name. "Ps. 86: 9.

“O you that hears prayer, unto you shall all flesh come.” Ps. 65: 2.

" All the ends of the earth shall remember and turn unto the Lord; and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before you." Ps. 22: 27.

"He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord God will wipe away tears from off all faces. " Isa. 25: 8.

"Look unto me and be you saved, all the ends of the earth , for I am God, and there is none else. I have sworn by myself; the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, that unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear, surely shall say: “In the Lord have I righteousness and strength.” Isa. 45: 24-27.

"He shall see of the travail of his soul and shall be satisfied."Isa. 53: 11.

“As the rain comes down, and the snow from heaven, and returns not thither, but waters the earth and makes it bring forth and bud that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater, so shall my word be that goes forth out of my mouth, it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.” Isa. 55: 10, 11.

“Can a woman forget her sucking child, that she should not have compassion on the son of her womb? Yea, they may forget, yet will I not forget you.” Isa. 49: 15.

“Behold, the days come, says the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers, in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they broke although I was a husband unto them, says the Lord. But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel: After those days, says the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and will be their God and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, know the Lord, for they shall all know me from the least of them unto the greatest of them, says the Lord, for I will forgive their sin and I will remember their iniquity no more.” Jer. 31: 31-34.

“I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death: O death, I will be your plagues: O grave, I will be your destruction: repentance shall be hid from mine eyes.” Hos. 13: 14.

“Who is a God like unto you, that pardons iniquity, and passes by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? he retains not his anger forever because he delights in mercy. He will turn again, he will have compassion upon us. He will subdue our iniquities, and you will cast all their sins into the depth of the sea. You will perform the truth to Jacob, and the mercy to Abraham, which you have sworn unto our fathers from the days of old.” Mic. 7: 18, 19, 20.

“And there was given him dominion, and glory and a kingdom, that all people, nations and languages should serve him: his dominion is an ever lasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.” Dan. 7: 14.