The Evangelical Universalist Forum

The Restitution Of All Things

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#41

Plan A or plan b minus?

“And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.”

plan b-

If I be lifted up from the earth I will draw some of mankind unto Myself.

I will drag off with power some of mankind.

I will try to lead off some of mankind, but will fail.

"As in Adam all die, so in Christ shall all be made alive"

plan b minus=

As in Adam all die, so in Christ shall some be made alive

"All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God…"

plan b-

Some have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God…

"Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life…"

plan b minus=

Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon some men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon some men unto justification of life.

Yes friends there is more!

Does all mean all?

The radical πᾶς/pas.

#42

Plan A=

“that IN/EN the name of Jesus every knee shall bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”

Alternate plan b minus

that IN/EN the name of Jesus every knee might bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,and every tongue might acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the potential glory of God the Father.

Does all mean all?

The radical πᾶς/pas.

πᾶς =ALL

Strong’s #3956 — Adjective — pas — pas )

Radically means “all.”

Used without the article it means “every,” every kind or variety. So the RV marg. in Ephesians 2:21 , “every building,” and the text in Ephesians 3:15 , “every family,” and the RV marg. of Acts 2:36 , “every house;” or it may signify “the highest degree,” the maximum of what is referred to, as, “with all boldness” Acts 4:29 .

Before proper names of countries, cities and nations, and before collective terms, like “Israel,” it signifies either “all” or “the whole,” e.g., Matthew 2:3 ; Acts 2:36 . Used with the article, it means the whole of one object.

In the plural it signifies “the totality of the persons or things referred to.” Used without a noun it virtually becomes a pronoun, meaning “everyone” or “anyone.”

In the plural with a noun it means “all.”

One form of the neuter plural (panta) signifies “wholly, together, in all ways, in all things,” Acts 20:35 ; 1 Corinthians 9:25 . The neuter plural without the article signifies “all things severally,” e.g., John 1:3 ; 1 Corinthians 2:10 ; preceded by the article it denotes “all things,” as constituting a whole, e.g., Romans 11:36 ; 1 Corinthians 8:6 ; Ephesians 3:9 .

#43

Plan A or alternate plan b minus?

Plan A=

“For therefore we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, specially of those that believe. Command this and teach this…”

Alternate plan=

For therefore we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of some men, and only those who believe. Command this and teach this…

Plan A

“And every/ pas creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honor, and glory, and power, be to him that sits on the throne, and to the Lamb for ever and ever.”

Alternate plan b minus=

And some creatures which are in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and some that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honor, and glory, and power, be to him that sits on the throne, and to the Lamb for ever and ever.

#44

“We all must die and are like water spilled on the ground that cannot be gathered up again, but the Lord does not take away life, instead He devises ways for the banished to be restored.”

All= the radical all

“Devise”=

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/devise

“banish”=

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/banished

Restore=

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/restore

#45

“We all must die and are like water spilled on the ground that cannot be gathered up again, but the Lord does not take away life, instead He devises ways for the banished to be restored.”

N.T. Restore=

Verb — apodidomi

Apodidomi=

To give back

To deliver.

“I restore” -Luke 19:8-

Apokathistemi

Apokathistemi=

Alternative form apokathistano

Restoration to a former condition of health.

Divine restoration.

Reclamation.

Verb — katartizo

Katartizo=

To mend.

To furnish completely.

To fit. To mend. to perfect.

Metaphorically, of the restoration by those who are spiritual, of one overtaken in a trespass, such a one being as a dislocated member of the spiritual body.

The tense is the continuous present, suggesting the necessity for patience and perseverance in the process.

#46

Dr. William Barclay

Overview - William Barclay’s Daily Study Bible

“Here is a tremendous picture of Christ. He is the fulfilment of all the hopes and dreams of Israel, for he is the Lion of Judah and the Root of David. He is the one whose sacrifice availed for men, and who still bears the marks of it in the heavenly places. But the tragedy has turned to triumph and the shame to glory; and he is the one whose all-conquering might none can withstand and whose all-seeing eye none can escape.” -Rev. 5.13-

#47

From a letter to Dr. Phillip Doddridge from Henry J. Barker:

“It is so. We read it in the book of God, that word and truth and gospel of our salvation, that as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Yes Doddridge, it is so. The fruit of our Redeemer’s sufferings and victory is the entire and eternal destruction of sin and death for everyone. And is it not a glorious destruction? A most blessed ruin? No enemy so formidable, no tyranny so bitter, no fetters so heavy and galling, no prison so dark and dismal, but they are vanquished and disarmed; the unerring dart is blunted and broken, the prison pulled down and razed. Our Lord is risen as the first fruits of them that slept.”

Every created thing (pan ktisma).

Every creature in a still wider antiphonal circle beyond the circle of angels (from ktizw, for which see 1 Timothy 4:4 ; James 1:18 ), from all the four great fields of life (in heaven, upon the earth, under the earth as in verse James 3 , with on the sea epi th qalassh added).

No created thing is left out.

This universal chorus of praise to Christ from all created life reminds one of the profound mystical passage in Romans 8:20-22 concerning the sympathetic agony of creation (ktisi) in hope of freedom from the bondage of corruption.

If the trail of the serpent is on all creation, it will be ultimately thrown off. Saying (legonta). Masculine (construction according to sense, personifying the created things) if genuine, though some MSS. have legonta (grammatical gender agreeing with panta) present active participle of legw, to say. And to the Lamb (kai twi arniwi). Dative case. Praise and worship are rendered to the Lamb precisely as to God on the throne. Note separate articles here in the doxology as in Romans 4:11 and the addition of to krato (active power) in place of iscu (reserve of strength) in Romans 5:12 . -A.T. Robertson Word Pictures-

#48

What does mystery mean?

“It is in Him, and through the shedding of His blood, that we have our deliverance–the forgiveness of our offences–so abundant was God’s grace, the grace which He, the possessor of all wisdom and understanding, lavished upon us, when He made known to us the mystery of His will. And this is in harmony with God’s merciful purpose for the government of the world when the times are ripe for it-- the purpose which He has cherished in His own mind of restoring the whole creation to find its one Head in Christ; yes, things in Heaven and things on earth, to find their one Head in Him. And you…”

Mystery=

Musterion=

Denotes, not the mysterious (as with the English word) but that which, being outside the range of unassisted natural apprehension, can be made known only by Divine revelation, and is made known in a manner and at a time appointed by God, and to those only who are illumined by His Spirit.

“The mystery which hath been hid from all ages and generations…”

Source, Guide, Goal of ta panta

#49

The Beautiful Heresy

OK. Perhaps you’re new to Universalism and you think you’ve stumbled across some new age, new-fangled heresy. Would it surprise you to know that Universalism was present in the early church and that people like Origen and Clement gleaned it from the scriptures? Would it surprise you that Eternal Torment (ET) wasn’t commonly accepted until around the year 500?

The Beautiful Heresy- Christian Universalism: The Early Church

The First 500 Years

https://tentmaker.org/books/Prevailing.html

#50

Those quotes fit Richard Murray’s teaching…
had divinely appointed limits to where he could actually only ever go so far, but no further ( Job 1:12; 2:6)—OLD TESTAMENT

Satan did as he willed ( Jn 8:44)—NEW TESTAMENT

However, if you should quote passages from the Old Testament which show that Satan can act without God’s permission or passages from the New Testament which show that he cannot act without God’s permission, you would make your point.

#51

To both Don and David, there is a possibility that Satan is a myth.

#52

Indeed… and on occasion such was personified in certain antagonists.

#53

Chad , a possibility that Satan is not a myth also?

#54

True, but that unfortunately opens the narrative (biblical view) to a bunch of interesting questions without answers.

If Satan is/was real an has/had power, what kind of God do we have? But if Satan is the essence of man’s ego, we have a very wise and loving Father who understands and is on humanities side.

#55

Wherein lies that possibility?—scripturally speaking.

1 Like
#56

First of all, the idea that you even ask about the possibility to me at least denotes you’ve thought about it.

There is no way to argue either position cause one will say that ‘the bible says it and I believe it.’
The other says ‘there is no way that is possible.’ It will become a conundrum point full of back and forth crap.
But there is throughout scripture, plenty of ammunition to say that man’s demon is his egotistical wanting to be best, be great, be superior… To be like God.

#57

Although John Wesley is not on record as a universalist, he was greatly influenced by the Moravians, many of whom were universalists. He quoted from Sixteen Discourses (Moravian Literature), the following statement, “By his (Christ’s) name, all can and shall obtain life and salvation.” One of Wesley’s intimate friends, Peter Bohler wrote: “All the damned souls shall yet be brought up out of hell.” (Bohler was made the Bishop of American Moravians, next in rank to Zinzendorf). (Source: A Cloud of Witnesses, by John Wesley Hanson, p 54)

The Reformer Martin Luther had hope for all. In his letter to Hanseu Von Rechenberg in 1522, Luther wrote: “God forbid that I should limit the time of acquiring faith to the present life. In the depth of the Divine mercy there may be opportunity to win it in the future.” Bengel’s book, Gnomon, quotes Luther’s exposition of Hosea as accepting the idea that Christ appeared to souls of some who in the time of Noah had been unbelieving, that they might recognize that their sins were forgiven through His sacrifice.

Richard J. Bauckham

Lecturer in the history of Christian thought at the University of Manchester

… Since 1800 this situation has entirely changed, and no traditional doctrine has been so widely abandoned as that of eternal punishment. Its advocates among theologians today must be fewer than ever before… Among the less conservative, universal salvation, either as hope or as dogma, is now so widely accepted that many theologians assume it virtually without argument."

Dr. J.I. Packer has noted that Universalism “has in this century quietly become part of the orthodoxy of many Christian thinkers and groups.”

D. B. Eller asserts in the Evangelical Dictionary of Theology that it is clear that “Universalism, in a variety of forms, continues to have appeal for contemporary faith, in both liberal and conservative circles.”

Dr. E.W. Bullinger (The Companion Bible)

“We have not an impotent Father, or a disappointed Christ, or a defeated Holy Ghost, as is so commonly preached; but an omnipotent Father, and all-victorious Christ, and an almighty Holy Spirit, able to break the hardest of heart and subdue the stoutest will.”

#58

“No one can deny that the New Testament contains a special revelation of the parental tie uniting us to God.

When we pray and say, “our Father,” these two words convey the spirit of the whole Gospel.

Now, it is not too much to assert that the view generally held is an absolute negation of all that the parental tie implies. It robs the relation of all meaning.

We have the very spirit of popular Christianity conveyed in the well-known line which tells us that we are ever in the great Taskmaster’s eye."

The great Taskmaster —note the term, for it reduces to mockery the divine Fatherhood, though that is of the very essence of Christianity.

What, for instance, shall we say of such a Father’s appeal to those who, as He knows, will never hear? To Him there is no future -all is present ; the “lost” are lost, and yet He calls them; they are, on the traditional creed, virtually damned; and He knows it, and yet invites them to come and be saved.

But all this difficulty comes from uniting two things absolutely irreconcilable -endless love and power, and yet endless evil. If we want to retain endless sin, let us return to the God of Calvin: nowhere else shall we find solid footing. This God at least is Lord and Master. He issues no invitations, knowing them to be in fact futile. He saves all whom He wants to save. His will must prevail. His Son sheds no drop of blood in vain, All for whom He dies are in fact saved, while the rest go to the devil. All this is hard -nay, cruel; but it is at least logical, intelligible.

Contrast with this system the flabby creed of our pseudo-orthodoxy.

Long ago it was shrewdly said by an old Calvinist, “universal salvation is credible, if universal Redemption be true.” For it shocks the reason to be told of an universal Redemption, when all that is meant is an attempt at the redemption of all the race, which fails; it shocks the reason no less to be told of an unchanging love which wholly ceases the moment the last breath leaves the frail body.” - Thomas Allin (Christ Triumphant)-

#59

FineLinen

16h

“No one can deny that the New Testament contains a special revelation of the parental tie uniting us to God.
:thinking:

#60

“Am I then to believe that the same God Who expends millions of years in slowly fitting this earth for man’s habitation, will only allow to man himself a few fleeting years, or months, or hours, as it may be, as his sole preparation time for eternity?

To settle questions so unspeakably great in their issue -questions stretching away to a horizon so far distant that no power of thought can follow them-in such hot haste, does seem quite at variance with our heavenly Father’s ways.

Is God’s action outside man so slow, and within man so hurried? Is the husk of far more value than the seed? Are millions of years allotted to fashioning man’s earthly home, while for man’s spiritual training for eternity, but a few brief years are given, and these so largely broken up by sleep, by work, by disease, by ignorance?

What should we say -to take a homely illustration -of an arrangement allotting 10,000 years to fashioning a man’s coat, or building his house, while assigning to his whole education but a few hours?” -Thomas Allin (Christ Triumphant)