The Evangelical Universalist Forum

The Salvation Mysteries

No. He quotes from a poem. But he also reflects the theological language, of the RC church since Vatican II. I’m not RC. I just share my understanding, of what they teach and say,

I remember a story, from a contemporary Eastern Indian saint. Someone asked saint A about something saint B said. Saint A said something to this effect:

“Why not just pick up the telephone. Then call them and ask your question.”

Of course, you can also text, email and send a snail mail to them.

There is no Hell. I’ll repeat, there is no Hell. :blush:

I never said there was. But correction, even loving correction, can be very hard.
“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad”

That was only for a couple thousand first-century Christians? C’mon, that’s not even reasonable. The gospel is more that ‘it’s all been done’ - it’s also 'now we must live in that light and exert ourselves with God’s help to have works and character that will follow me into the life after life after death."

We are going around aunt sally’s house so to speak. If you believe there is an afterlife correction that is stated in the Christian bible, so be it. I see it differently, I see a God dealing with a specific group of people that we are blessed to be able to also see. We glean truths and understand different things but at the end of the day, it is a 2000 year old group of books that have been fought over since day one. :kissing_smiling_eyes::wink:

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:roll_eyes:

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The Eastern Orthodox / Eastern Catholic position (and mine also)…is that heaven and hell are equally, being in the presence of God. Now “ hypothetically speaking ”, if I am “pure” - when I see God…I might see dancing angels around me…and if Chad is “impure”, when he sees God…he might see zombies from Z-Hell (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9).

Many of the Native American, Lakota visionaries…speak of experiences of the afterlife, akin to this Robin Williams movie:

I really enjoyed that Robin Williams movie.

Once again there is no Hell, and I say again ‘There is no Hell’

On this evangelical universalist web site I am proposing that there is no hell. Let’s see what everyone has to say…

:thinking:

It’s what disqualifies me from being a universalist Chad… that I reject Universalism’s hell; the same hell they and their opponents together believe in.

Bad news: there is a hell/Gehenna/Hades. It continues to this day as a POW camp for those who die in their unbelief, still captive to the devil.

Good news: hell and its occupants, along with death, will be thrown into the second death (Rev. 20:14, 1 Cor. 15:26, 55), the temporary, remedial lake of fire (as to it being temporary and remedial, see “For Further Consideration” at the end of this post)—and death will be put to death, and disappear. Those in the lake of fire will all eventually repent and surrender to Jesus because of the liberating and healing work of God’s fire of love; and one by one they will come out of it, and go through the open gates of the New Jerusalem to take the water of life freely being offered to them by the Holy Spirit and the Bride (Rev. 22:17).

Only a preterist, who does not believe in the futurity of the book of Revelation (or someone who does not believe in the reality of the devil and his ongoing, deluding influence), could suggest that there is no hell. Recently in another thread I laid out some key disagreements with preterism.

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This must be from Hezekiah chapter 5 verse 13 :wink:

Gehenna and Hades are TWO distinct and different things and not one and the same.

When the zombies from Z-Hell (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9) get here…I doubt everyone, will be singing this song! :wink:

I think saying “there is no hell” and “hell is what one might experience, standing in the presence of God”…is a matter of semantics. Both really affirm, there is no literal place called hell.

Assume God is like baking soda. If water mixes with it… it’s a nice, stomach settling drink. If vinegar mixes with it, you get a volatile reaction.

Similarly, folks say people “sleep” after death. The Lakota and other shamanic visionaries, tell us differently. The spirits are all around us. Some eventually go to the “happy hunting grounds” or some likely facility, whatever that is.

And maybe…just maybe…those Brazilian churches and Native America Churches… taking peyote and/ or ayahuasca , during ceremony…might be seeing reality, as it really is…and the sacrament and/or medicine, is like a TV set…tuning to the right channel.

Sometimes a Holy Fool is like Curly Stooge…they appear to say or do things, that appear “off the wall”…but on closer examination…they might not be so “off the wall”, after all.

Just as an aside - what is the ‘holy’ in ‘holy fool’?

Clearly Dave it’s a typo and should read… ‘Wholly’ :rofl:

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Check the link Holy Fool, for the answer…if it doesn’t satisfy you, I’ll try to find - an answer for you!

But think of it like this. If there’s anything “spiritual” about me, I disguise it. By pretending to be, a fool or idiot. Just like Detective Colombo…who is really extremely intelligent…pretends to be a moron, to throw his adversaries off guard.

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Tongue in cheek, Randy, just joshin’ ya pal. I know and respect the office of holy fool!! There is an important function for HF’s.

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The legendary Lieutenant Columbo!

It’s part of the Eastern Catholic (agreed to by the RC church, that sanctions EC teaching) / Eastern Orthodox traditions…that heaven and hell is equally, being in the presence of God.

It boils down to what Anglican New Testament scholar and bishop, NT Wright…talks about using abstract and concrete language…of course, NT Wright has a different perspective on hell…not entirely at odds, with the EO / EC conception…

The book of Revelation…is a prime example, of when concrete and abstract language - is being used…We get anything from the “Left Behind” series…to the zombies of Z-Hell (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9)…Yes, folks! I can find verses in Revelation, that can refer to them!

Bible Verses About Zombies

Yepper. how many walk down the sidewalk Christians have never in their wildest dreams been informed on what the word ‘hell’ means or where it comes from?

As far as I’m concerned, NOONE knows what happens to us after we leave our physical bodies. The writers of the Bible didn’t know either and if one interprets it to mean so, then I’d say he is misunderstanding the words. Of course there is hell ON EARTH, and the biblical authors are telling us about it so that we don’t make the same mistakes and end up there.