The Evangelical Universalist Forum

The Secular and Sacred in Human Communication

Practices Christian Living
#81

Hi, Dave

Yes, you’re kind of misunderstanding me, though it’s my fault you are, as I certainly didn’t make myself clear. I didn’t even think of a painting of Jesus on the cross when I said that, or a crucifix, or certainly of seeing Him hanging there. That would have been a horror. I guess what I was thinking about was His act itself. THAT was an act of amazing, incredible beauty. HE (not the execution or the executioners or the execution method) is the work of art, and performs the work of art – of ultimate beauty. Greater love has no man than that he lay down his life for his friends. He didn’t have to do it; didn’t have to stay there – except maybe, because of His love, He DID have to, in a way. Not because He lacked the power to resist but because He would not. He was paying the price for His bride.

I only ever saw one crucifixion picture that I thought was beautiful, and that was a head and shoulders shot in which the focal point was His eyes. His eyes were beautiful. It wasn’t a Mel Gibson type image – it was no doubt a good deal less than realistic or else I think it would have been too hard to look at.

#82

I think Cindy’s words echo my own feelings on this in a much more coherent way than I could hope to write!

Precisely! :slight_smile:

#83

Good! I understand you and could not agree more. :smiley:

#84

:smiley:

As for the Fra Angelico painting you posted earlier, Dave, it’s one of my favorites.:slight_smile: For some reason, that period was bursting with Annunciation pictures, but this one has a very cool storybook quality to it, in my opinion. (Poor Fra Angelico is probably turning over in his grave at hearing his masterpiece deemed as having a “storybook” quality!)

#85

I found that painting a number of years ago, and one glimpse told me that much of my thinking about medieval times was just wrong - probably because college professors were intent on teaching one thing - the excesses of the Catholic church. I have learned since that there was much vitality and life and celebration during the Dark Ages, as well as the excesses.

In one of his lectures, Francis Schaeffer mentioned that the halos were best gotten rid of, as artists took a more realistic look at the world and humanity. I happen to disagree - though I am no art critic - the halos put me in a different space of appreciation. I like 'em. I would not mind having one myself…

#86

Renaissance was coined by the fourteenth century Christian humanist Petrarch who was speaking of a golden classical Age and a rebirth of this age (Renaissance = Rebirth) with a ‘Middle Age’ lying between.

Fra Angelico is an early Italian Renaissance painter. The annunciation of birth was a favourite theme in a culture that saw itself as being reborn. The painting shows a concern to represent nuanced human emotion for example in a way that you would not find in the stiff hieratic paintings of the High Middle Ages (although hmmm - it’s always difficult to generalise)

It would be a great idea to do a thread in which we took one painting at a time to talk about. It’s good to begin with some classics and with religious paintings (because these tend to have a more universal appeal and not be just a matter of taste). Why don’t we look at some annunciation and nativity paintings for advent - it takes us away from the logocentric and in to the mystery of Christmas as best as we can on the net I reckon. :slight_smile:

#87

I would like that very much.:slight_smile: Nativity paintings are my favorite, but for some reason, my school art history books don’t focus on the nativity, so I would like to talk about them here.

Perhaps you can start the thread, Dick, and I’ll jump right in. After all, you’ve got libraries more knowledge than I do on the subject!

#88

I might get on to you (and Dave) to help with uploading images (not very good at this). But if Cindy and Dave are amenable we could begin with the Fra Angleico, then perhaps look at a Nativity Icon, and then look at a nativity from the ‘realist’ tradition as a contrast say?

The thing about a painting is that it’s easier for every one to take in than a piece of music or even a story. It’s easier to talk about on the internet. :slight_smile:

#89

Dick, if you and anyone else who wants to venture an opinion will let me know (or Kate, who is certainly good at it) I’ll get your photos up and also provide a link to the site where you found them. I’ve got to get back to work just now – I’m only taking a short break. :slight_smile:

#90

Yep, I’ll be happy to upload any pictures! And I think beginning with Fra Angelico would work great.:slight_smile:

Happy Thanksgiving, everyone!

Love,

Kate

#91

I’m in! Great idea.
Gobble.

#92

Great thread Cindy!

The greatest artist of all time? Take this quote by one of the greats Vincent Van Gogh - this is what he wrote:

“Christ alone, of all the philosophers, magicians, etc., has affirmed eternal life as the most important certainty, the infinity of time, the futility of death, the necessity and purpose of serenity and devotion. He lived serenely, as an artist greater than all other artists, scorning marble and clay and paint, working in the living flesh. In other words, this peerless artist, scarcely conceivable with the blunt instrument of our modern, nervous and obtuse brains, made neither statues nor paintings nor books. He maintained in no uncertain terms that he made … living men, immortals.”

The correspondence, during his three or four productive years, between Vincent and his brother (Theo ?) is both inspirational and very moving. It tears my heart when I read of a Van Gogh painting being sold for millions, thinking of this great man unable to sell his paintings and of his brother working In Paris at an art gallery keeping Vincent’s paintings but unable to sell one, and of the total dedication of both to his work with great self-sacrifice.

Michael in Barcelona

#93

No need to read the whole correspondence between Vincent and Theo Van Gogh, as there is an excellent selection in chronolgical order:

The Letters of Vincent van Gogh edited by Mark Roskill. Amazon have it available for Kindle, in paperbaack and hardback.

It is a remarkable reas, a must for anyone interested in painting, vocation, creativity, genius, persistence, humbleness, poverty, sacrifice…!!

Michael in Barcelona

#94

Great quote by Van Gogh, Michael. My personal favorite of his is, “The more I think about it, the more I realize there is nothing more artistic than to love others.”

And, everyone, I went ahead and started a thread for Advent paintings. So drop on by the “Talk About Anything” section of the forums.:slight_smile: Thanks, Dick, for the idea!

Kate

#95

Well I really love Van Gogh Michael - and his letters to Theo - but I’m undecided about ‘the greatest of all times’; he is one of the greats certainly and his art is sacred.

I think what we should do is look at a different painting say every week in sync with the liturgical year - so advent is coming up and we know what to do for starters. And I propose we start with the Fra Angelico annunciation painting posted by Dave. See how it runs for a couple of moths - through Christmas and Epiphany and into Lent. I’ve no idea how we are going to make this democratic - but I think the paintings or photos or film stills should accord with the liturgical cycle to give us theme/pattern. Certainly some of Van Gough’s paintings would make great subjects - his drawing ‘Sorrow’ would be a different take on Passiontide (because it is a female nude) and any of his landscapes or still life’s would fit the feast of Transfiguration.

Kate - you old sweetie; I was only joking about the spelling - you are such a nice person!!! :laughing:

#96

Well, I just posted three corresponding Annunciation painting, also from the 15th century, to the new “Arts” thread. Whoops! They are still relevant to the Fra Angelico though, so we’re still on-topic. (I’m especially good at getting everyone off-topic it seems. :blush: My scattered brain transfers over to internet conversation! :laughing:)

Well, I’m the last person who can judge on spelling – I still have to mentally sing the alphabet to figure out which letter comes after another. For example, to know that ‘Q’ comes after ‘P,’ I need to sing the ABC’s up until I reach ‘Q!’ And in other news, I just learned that British English pronounces “Z” as “zed” and not “zee.” :open_mouth: Turns out that change was part of our little rebellion, too. :laughing:

P.S. Edited, because I found spelling errors. :stuck_out_tongue:

#97

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

Kate, you’re hilarious! I’m so glad I’m not the only one singing the alphabet whilst perusing the dictionary!

#98

Good to know I’m not alone either, Cindy! :laughing: When I wrote that Q comes after P in my previous post, I sang the alphabet a couple times – just to make sure! :laughing: