Aaron, what I am saying is that until Jesus hands over the kingdom to God at the end of the ages, no one will enter the kind of heaven that people envision. If they do, they will not stay there indefinitely. Until the end of the ages comes, there are intervening ages where there is much work to be done. During those ages, we will be with Jesus, doing what Jesus is doing, reaching out to the lost. We won’t, in my opinion, be strumming harps in idyllic planes of existence completely separated from what is going on here on earth. If we are to rule with Christ during these intervening ages, just exactly who do you think we will be ruling over, only the saints in heaven? Read the book of Revelation. Does it picture Christians as absent from the world? For the time being, and during the kingdom ages, “heaven” is where Christ is. Since Christ is omnipresent, then everywhere there is the potential to have a relationship with Him. All who come to Him sincerely repenting of their sin will be received by Him, at least to some degree. In the New Testament, “Heaven” is very seldom described as a place of existence away from this earth. Old Testament and New Testament prophecies concerning God’s coming Kingdom are telescoped and often describe different stages of a multi-stage development of events. There are many different descriptions, because God’s kingdom takes many different forms during coming ages. Sometimes the descriptions refer to events on a physical kindom on earth. Sometimes they describe God’s rule in our hearts. Sometimes they describe scenes in “heavenly” realms in another plane of existence. And everything in between. If you depend on only a few, “proof tests” on which to base your view of heaven, then you can lose sight of the bigger picture. I try to look at the big picture. It’s like a blind man trying to describe what a camel looks like by feeling only a few parts of the camel’s body. I am not able to understand exactly what form or shape God’s kindom will take at every point in time, and I am unable to distinguish which scriptures are meant to be taken literally and which are not, and exactly what time period is referred to in each case, and so on. I do know this. . . at the very end of the ages, EVERYONE will finally have entered into the kingdom, and God will be all in all.
Richard
I appreciate that, but can you respond to my previous posts, paricularly this :Richard, where do you see scripture teaching “born again” being an on going experience? I believe one must continue in the faith grounded and settled, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel (Col 1:23), but where in the bible does it say that being born again is not received instantaneously by faith?
If being born again is an on going experience…how can Paul tell us in Galatians 6:15 "For in Christ Jesus, neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision, BUT A NEW CREATURE!
And this: I’m not asking you how heaven is like… Please, briefly explain to me how I would be allowed to enter heaven.
Please respond with scripture to these questions.
God bless,
Aaron
Aaron, I do not accept the notion that being “born again” is a different experience than “becoming saved.” The term “born again” is only one of many different descriptions of entering into a spiritual relationship with God. Jesus was only making the point to Nicodemus that there is a difference between “spiritual” life and “physical life.” He was making the point that entering God’s kingdom does not refer to the innauguration of a physical kingdom on earth any time in the near future. Entering God’s kingdom refers to a “spiritual” experience. He likened it to a spiritual birth, becoming a spiritual child of God, so to speak, and entering into a spiritual relationship with God, our HEAVENLY Father. By the way, Jesus did not say exactly when this “born again” experience would occur. Does it occur right away, in this present life, when we ask Jesus to be our savior? How can that be, since no one at the time he spoke his words to Nicodemus even knew how to do that? Or does it occur during our physical lifetime, but only for those alive after Christ’s resurrection and ascention into heaven? Or does it occur at the moment we die physically? Or does it occur when Christ innaugurates His kindom on earth more than two thousand years later? He does not say. All he says is, that those who enter the kindom must be born again spiritually into a relationship with God. In my view, entering into a spiritual relationship with God, involves a process of development, that for some begins with a single cathartic event, but for most is something that one grows into. This “conversion” process is ongoing and will not be complete until the completion of the ages.
Respectfully,
Richard
Richard
You said: In my view, entering into a spiritual relationship with God, involves a process of development, that for some begins with a single cathartic event, but for most is something that one grows into. This “conversion” process is ongoing and will not be complete until the completion of the ages.
Aaron: How does a spiritually dead unbeliever grow into becoming born again? That does not make any sense. Why do you believe this and please show me in scripture where it says this. I just walked you through the process to salvation in Colossians 1:12-14.
God bless,
Aaron
Aaron, your reasoning is circular. You don’t have to be spiritually alive to be born again. You start out spiritually dead and when you enter into relationship with Christ you become more and more alive spiritually and you grow into that relationship.
Make sense?
Richard
You said: Aaron, your reasoning is circular. You don’t have to be spiritually alive to be born again. You start out spiritually dead and when you enter into relationship with Christ you become more and more alive spiritually and you grow into that relationship.
Aaron: Nooooooo! Being born again is being spirtually alive. You enter into relationship with Jesus Christ by going from spiritual death to spiritual life by faith. ( 1 John 3:14) When you are born again…your spirit is created in righteousness and true holiness ( Eph 4:24) You can’t become any more righteous or holy. It does not exist any other way, Richard.
You are spiritually dead unless your in Christ. You can only be spirtually alive by faith in Christ…So, to be in Christ by faith is to be spirtually alive or born again. To be spiritually dead is to be not in Christ and an unbeliever.
Make Sense?
God bless,
Aaron
Aaron, then we agree. You start out spiritually dead. You enter into relationship with Christ and you become spiritually alive. Right. That is what I believe, as well. May I ask, are you a universalist?
Richard
No sir, I’m a born again child of God. I do not believe the bible teaches UR. I believe the bible teaches that Jesus made provision for everyone to be saved, but to be a partaker of this salvation one must believe to receive it…or doubt it and do without it…pretty simple stuff.
God bless,
Aaron
Aaron, then we will just have to agree to disagree.
Love you just the same. 
Richard
Richard
One final thought. Why you think being “born again” is an ongoing experience and not received instantaneously by faith totally contradicts the bible. I leave you with the words of John inspired by the Holy Spirit:
1 John 5: 10-12 "10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
Verse 11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
Verse 12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
Notice in verse 11 and 12 God tells us he has given us eternal life. We have this born again life when we have the Son. How do we have the Son? When we accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior by faith. Instantaneous, right now we have born again life. It is not an ongoing experience to get it. You have it now for all those who believe.
God bless,
Aaron
How strongly does one have to believe> Obviously faith or belief occurs in varying degrees. What about the individual who has serious doubts and reservations about the truth of the gospel but still wants a relationship with Jesus? Where does God draw the line? What level of belief or faith qualifies? Below is a link to a test you can take to determine your level of faith and belief. Where does one need to score on this test to consider himself born again?
I agree with most of what you said above. He who has the son has life. It’s just that I believe that salvation is a process. The more of the Son you have the more of his life you experience.
Here is the link:
Richard
The only part of salvation that is not a reality is wearing our redeemed, glorified bodies and experiencing heaven.( those are coming) The rest of our salvation is right now! Saved from what? Delivered from spiritual death, Delivered from sickness and disease, Delivered from poverty, Delivered from the power of the sin nature spiritually, physically/emotionally, and financially. Whether you walk in it or not is up to you. All these promises are paid for with the blood of Jesus!
Stop trying to rationalize faith, Richard. You come to Jesus with childlike faith to access his grace of salvation.
God bless,
Aaron
On this we both agree!
Blessings,
Richard
Richard
The only part of salvation that is not a reality is wearing our redeemed, glorified bodies and experiencing heaven.( those are coming) The rest of our salvation is right now! Saved from what? Delivered from spiritual death, Delivered from sickness and disease, Delivered from poverty, Delivered from the power of the sin nature spiritually, physically/emotionally, and financially. Whether you walk in it or not is up to you. All these promises are paid for with the blood of Jesus!
Stop trying to rationalize faith, Richard. You come to Jesus with childlike faith to access his grace of salvation
Aaron: Agree with all of it because it is written with the blood of Jesus whether you walk in it or not!
God bless,
Aaron
Sorry, Aaron
Those views don’t square with the scriptures and certainly not reality? When’s the last time you had a cold?
Richard
Richard
I did not say sickness and disease won’t try to invade your unredeemed body, I’m saying when it does you have the authority to rebuke it and not carry it because Jesus already bore it. No sense the two of us carrying it.
Paraphrasing:
Galatians 3:13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the Law!
Hebrews 9:12 We have a eternal redemption with Jesus’ blood!
Colossians 1:12-14 Explains accessing our inheritance (salvation) by being qualified. How? Being born again.
Matthew 8:17 Jesus took our infirmities and bore our sicknesses so you would not have to!
There are many,many more I can show you, but these do just fine.
Stop believing what religion has told you, Richard, and believe what God says!
God bless,
Aaron
We must tell that beggar in Calcutta just how great life is for you now that Jesus has solved all your spiritual, physical and financial problems. I’m sure he will be very happy for you. It’s great that you are so much farther along spiritually than he.
Richard
Richard
That is how Jesus sent the 12 and the seventy out… He said tell them the kingdom of heaven is at hand…Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, cast out devils, raise the dead…freely give as you freely received. he has commanded us to do the same ( Mark 16:15-20).
You see, Richard, we are to demonstrate the gospel, not just preach in word only.
Btw, maybe you should ask God to send you to calcutta to preach the gospel to the beggar who you say don’t know God exits. Go on a missionary trip, Richard, intead of making excuses why culcutta don’t know Jesus…go…and let them hear, brother.
God bless,
Aaron
Richard
I lay hands on the sick all the time and they recover. I have seen backs, necks, acne, sinus infections, cancer,etc… healed by the power of God. I’m conforming to the image of Christ inside me everyday. I’m not walking in the fullness of Jesus, but I’m making progress and walking down that path to reach the fullness of ( Jesus’ life) in me.
1 John 4:17: As Jesus is, so am I in this world! Thank you Jesus!
The works I do you will do also and greater works you will do because I go to the Father. John 14:12.
God bless,
Aaron