Theophilus and Polycarp are going to convince me and I hate

[blackiebori]

Theophilus then solemnly declares to his pagan friend, if you “continue unbelieving,” you will be convinced, though too late, when “tormented with eternal punishments,” which are likewise foretold by the prophets. Then he appeals to Autolycus to escape “the punishments that are to light upon the profane and unbelieving.”

I have catched this from this page, what says that Teophilus believed in conditional inmortality. He says tormented, and for me is so obvious that he is referring to eternal torments.

egwtext.whiteestate.org/publicat … number=843

I have fear of this because Teophillus was a pupil of Polycarp (who was a pupil of Apostle John), and he said this:

“You (referring to the proconsul) threaten me with fire which burns for an hour, and after a little
is extinguished, but [you] are ignorant of the fire of the coming judgment…, reserved for the
ungodly.”

He was a pupil of Apostle John. I´m starting to believe in ECT again. Help me.

Hey Sopho,

There are a couple things that you have to know before coming to any conclusions. The quote that you’ve cited (the one attributed to St. Polycarp himself) is actually taken from the Martyrdom of Polycarp, a work which takes the form of a letter from Smyrna to other second century churches of Asia Minor. The Martyrdom is usually considered to have been composed during the latter half of the second century AD, but some modern scholars believe it was composed around the early third century. The historicity of the Martyrdom has come under some skepticism based on accounts that parallel those of the passion narratives in the Gospels. While such accounts are possible, it is more likely that the parallels are literary devices, rather than historical events. Therefore, the Martyrdom is written as a treatise independent of St. Polycarp’s actual martyrdom. In fact, the quote you cited may not be authentic to the saint himself.

For more information, see: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martyrdom_of_Polycarp#Historicity.

I would suggest reading the epistle of Polycarp to the Philippians for what I believe to be an authentic work of St. Polycarp himself. As far as I have read into the epistle, I can’t see any hints of ECT teachings within it. It is an NT-based exegesis containing instructions for the Christians at Philippi in Greece.

Concerning Theophilus of Antioch, some claim that he was an annihilationist, not an ECT-advocate. The doctrine of conditional immortality teaches the annihilation of wicked, mortal souls in Gehenna. However, depending on what translation you read of his Apologia ad Autolycum, it would seem he speaks of “eternal torments” in the “hereafter” (Book I, chapter XIV). Now, it is obvious to me that Theophilus deliberately misapplies and/or misinterprets St. Paul’s words in Romans 2:7,8. Theophilus claims that the suffering of the wicked will endure for eternity in the afterlife, while Paul says nothing of the sort. Rather, Paul is referring to the day of judgement for Jews first, then for the Greeks (Romans 2:9,10).

In any case, I wouldn’t look upon Theophilus of Antioch as an inspired source, though he was a skilled apologist. What I don’t understand is how, and from where, you learned that St. Polycarp was associated with Theophilus? I can find no direct or close connection between the two.

[sven]

Do I understand this right, this Mr. Lewis wrote a fantasy story about the afterlife, which however can interpreted differently?

He wrote several fantasies about the afterlife, but they comport fairly well with what he wrote in non-fiction about the afterlife, too, since after all he was in a habit of writing apologetic fantasies, starting with his very first Christian book The Pilgrim’s Regress. (That one features ECT not annihilation, so far as I recall. I dictated all his religious works to tape years ago. )

After he wrote The Problem of Pain (during WW2, his period of greatest output), which was straight up theology, he never particularly changed his beliefs on final perdition afterward.

(A Grief Observed is often cited as somehow abrogating TPoP or Miracles: A Preliminary Study or various other works, but that’s a popular misunderstanding fostered by the biographical drama Shadowlands, which among several other errors was built on the pretense that Lewis lived in an academic ivory tower sheltered existence and wasn’t acquainted with ‘real’ suffering, taking a line of self-critical humility from TPoP itself too literally. The real Lewis had converted out of Christianity as a child largely from the grief of his beloved mother’s death from cancer, and had almost died from artillery shelling in World War One, so he did in fact know something about personal physical and emotional pain. Certainly AGO has nothing to say for or against eternal conscious torment or annihilationism per se – it just isn’t a topic. )

I googled for his name, he is the author of the Chronicles of Narnia, that book “The great divorce” sounds interesting, did it gain popularity outside the US? Hell and the afterlife seems to have a big part in American pop culture, I can remember heaving heard about a book that also presents the afterlife, where the devil has covered the lake of fire with a net, so that those who are tossed into hell, do not fall into the lake of fire, any idea which book this is?

[JasonPratt]

No idea what that other book is; not one of Lewis’.

The Great Divorce was originally published in Great Britain of course. I don’t know what its relative popularity is between there and the USA.