The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Timothy Keller

Evangelical Universalism Arguments against Evangelical Universalism
#41

Rain.

  1. Calvinistic theology is wrong. The Holy Spirit draws them and convicts them when they hear the word of God preached…they either believe and receive or doubt an do without. The problem with our modern day gospel…it never was supposed to be preached in word only, but in power, with signs and miracles confirming the word.( Mark 16:15-20) If a Muslim has a relative sick and dying of a terminal illness, and you pray for them in the name of Jesus and they are healed… do you think those Muslims will look at Jesus in a different way? You bet they would! Signs and miracles confirm the gospel and people believe in Jesus for salvation. Praise God! It is happening all over the world (especially the Muslim world) as we speak. Millions of Muslims are believing in Jesus at a unbelieveable rate.

  2. Again, If all we do is hold our bibles in our hands and say " This sayeth the Lord" and the Muslims hold their Qur’an and say " This sayeth Allah" we will accomplish nothing and leave frustrated. We need the signs and miracles to confirm the word in demonstration of the Spirit and Power! Jesus’ ministry was never supposed to end on the cross…He has given authority to all believers to walk in the same power that he walked in. Glory be to God forever!

#42

And that choice is: love me or I will burn you forever in Hell.

Well, heck! I’d love Him, or at least give it my best shot. Just maybe that is why there are so many people who say they are believers but don’t seem to be thrilled with God in the least. You never hear them speak kindly of Him, never any praise reports…

If I were engaged to a man who told me, “love me or I will kill you” first time he turned his back I would be so gone!

You know, this is really sad!

Debbie

#43

Agreed Debbie, and even the concept of “believe me” as if people choose to believe something makes no sense.

If I tell Aaron there are 14 purple fat martians with banannas growing from their ears and that if he fails to believe in them then he will be tortured forever, would he “will” himself to believe it? Would it be lip service?

LFW whose paradigm is so confused simply don’t think about the difficult questions. Instead they continue to repeat the same propositions because “they know it’s true” because “the bible says so”.

I agree it’s sad, it’s sad they believe God had to give up his children (Adam and Eve) to the devil so they could then choose who they want as their parent and depending on their decision, he’ll either skin them alive for all eternity or love them for all eternity. Truly sad scenarios when their laid out for what they are.

Funny thing is Scripture never says God gambled them up. It’s all philosophy but they’re not willing to admit it. So long as “that’s what the bible teaches” rolls off their lips they think that God must be using them. Sad.

Aug

#44

Debbie.

No, your seeing it all wrong. The gospel was never to be preached to turn or burn. Although, going to hell is a true consequence of one rejecting Jesus, but hell was never to be used to drive someone to God by fear. God does not want people to come to faith in Jesus because they are afraid of the alternative ( Although that is better than not coming to faith at all).The church has missed it in the area of sharing the gospel. Going to hell is not good news. But it has to be explained to the sinner to give them the full picture of eternity. They will spend eternity in one of two places. Where they spend it determines on their response to the finished work of Jesus on the cross. Its a choice. Spend eternity with God or spend it separated from Him. Most people choose themselves. God will not force you to accept this free gift of salvation…you must respond by faith and receive it personally.

If I sit in a garage that does not make a car. Just because you go to church, debbie, that does not make you a believer. One has to be born again to be in the family of God.

#45

Aug.

you said: If I tell Aaron there are 14 purple fat martians with banannas growing from their ears and that if he fails to believe in them then he will be tortured forever, would he “will” himself to believe it? Would it be lip service?

Aaron37: I agree with you that man does not have the ability to believe in something they cannot see. That is why when the word of God is preached the faith of God is released to the sinner to give him the ability to make a choice the same way Lydia did in Acts 16:14. Also, the sinner can resist this gift of faith to believe in Jesus as King Agrippa did in Acts 26.

Paul was always trying to “persuade” people to believe the gospel. If monergism were true there would be no need to persuade, huh auggy?

Definition of persuade - cause somebody to adopt a certain position, belief, or course of action; twist somebody’s arm; "You can’t persuade me to accept the gift of salvation!

Auggy, where is monergism in the act of persuasion? Would it be monergism at work if God needed Paul to twist people’s arm to believe? Lol. That blows monergism out of the water.

Definition of monergism- the doctrine that the Holy Ghost acts independently of the human will in the work of regeneration.

#46

Aaron37,

This has to be the result of trying to figure out the terrible doctrine of eternity in Hell because it’s is not what the Bible teaches. Paul said God commands all men to repent in acts 17…We all know what isaiah said about it.

I agree.

Why?

More than a choice it sounds like coercion. So, i am a sinner and someone shares the full picture of eternity with me. I am scared spitless to go to Hell, so, I try my best to believe…repeat the sinners prayer down the roman road. (I am so fearful that I fail to see the roman road says “death” not Hell was passed down to all men. ) It is difficult to believe because of the “full picture” (Hell if I don’t believe)because I can rationalize that if this is the case, this God who loves me created it this way. Then I stand before the Lord one day to hear “depart from me I never knew you”? Because I didn’t really believe…the devils believe too ya know?

Here in the South we would call that “damned if you do and damned if you don’t”. no pun intended

Debbie

#47

Debbie.

There are millions of religious people that call themselves Christians who only have “head knowledge” faith of Jesus. Head knowledge faith does not get you saved, born again or make you a Christian. Salvation comes from believing from the heart. ( Rom 10:9-10)

#48

Tell you what A37, lets take this to the philosphy threads for the LFW - DET, we’ve pretty much annihilated this thread. I’m good at doing that and I’m sure Jeff is going to have a good time poking me with a stick on this one. - I admit, I’m guilty.

Aug

#49

man sharpening stick