Ultra universalism


#1

I’m becoming ultra universalist in my soteriology. Are there any books by universalists who don’t believe in postmortem unpleasantness?


An Immediate Entrance into Glory Upon Death?
An Honest Question to Purgatorial Universalists
An Honest Question to Purgatorial Universalists
#2

There are those who hold to a book called “A Course in Miracles”. They’re usually Unitary Universalists. The book has some good insights in it.

They believe in Christ and the Holy Spirit. They say the end of the world is brought in by laughter not apocalyptic imagery. Like Hindus and Buddhists they believe that the only thing real is love or the eternal. That which can be destroyed is unreal or illusion. While I believe the ego is illusion I haven’t gotten all the way to saying the physical is illusion. I do believe that the world is insane like the book teaches though and that we are nobody special.


#3

Maybe I should have been more specific. CHRISTIAN ultra universalism.


#4

Well, they believe in Christ. They’re not fundamentalism though.


#5

Here’s a metaphysical interpretation of the latter half of the New Testament. It’s a Unity classic. “Be Ye Transformed: Acts Through Revelation Metaphysically Interpreted” by Elizabeth Sand Turner

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51VnqAp6gwL.SY291_BO1,204,203,200_QL40.jpg


#6

Michael, it doesn’t sound like that book has anything to do with ultra universalism. Please refrain from promoting books in this thread unless they are ultra universalist books.


#7

I guess I don’t know what Ultra-Universalism is then. She doesn’t believe in afterlife hell and believes in unity. I’ll refrain because I don’t know what you are talking about.


#8

Hey qaz. I found some on Amazon. Go to Amazon and type in Ultra-Universalism if you haven’t already done so. I may look into this myself. I’ve never heard of it before. Thanks!


#9

Yes, I might have mentioned to read Elisabeth Kübler-Ross ‘On Life After Death’… Totally changed the way both my wife and myself viewed the afterlife of Christians. Great stuff short read.

Good luck.


#10

Ultra universalism is the belief that everyone will be immediately ushered into heaven when they die. Most universalists believe in postmortem punishment (or as they say, “correction”). UUs do not. Our forum member Geoffrey was an UU.


#11

I’m going to get a few of the books. I have to wait for my Christmas money though.


#12

As I’ve said before, the many influential evangelical universalists, including those who inspired this site, appear to find ultra universalism contrary to Scripture. Since it nonetheless has appeared popular here, I too would be interested in a volume defending it by someone who is a student of the Bible and evangelical theology.


#13

I keep in touch through email with Geoffrey. He’s really helped me believe in UU’s plausibility.


#14

My understanding of ultra-universalism is that it promotes the idea that everyone automatically goes to heaven or to God at some point after death, and that no correction of character is necessary in order for that to happen. I strongly oppose this point of view. The whole purpose of Jesus’ death was to deliver us from sin itself, that a character change is necessary, though salvation is a life-long process. Paul said that He who began a good work in you will bring it to completion in the day of Jesus Christ (Philippians 1:6). I hold he position that if that the salvation process has not been completed in the day of Jesus Christ, then it will have to be completed later through God’s loving correction.

Most people think all universalists are of the ultra stripe. It is for that very reason that I don’t identify myself as a universalist, but as a “reconciliationist.” For I don’t wish to be identified with ultra-universalism which I consider to be one of the words heresies. If UU were true, then change of character or avoidance of evil behaviour in this life is unnecessary. This negates the teaching of Jesus and the apostles.

*For he will render to everyone according to his works: to those who by perseverance in well‑doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, he will give lasting life; but for those who are self-seeking and are not persuaded by the truth, but are persuaded by wickedness, there will be wrath and fury.

Affliction and anguish for every person who does evil … but glory and honour and well-being for every one who does good … For God shows no partiality. (Romans 2:6-11)*


#15

Thanks for the warning Paidion.


#16

Paidion, the UU belief is that change of character will occur. It will occur in an instant, but it will occur nonetheless.


#17

Bob, read the book I recommended to qaz. I think you will at least start to see a different view.

Thanks

Chad


#18

Chad, is the author of that book an UU?


#19

Without any pain or punishment, i presume.

The change or correction could also occur, painlessly & without punishment, over a longer period of time, such as days, years or ages.

But it seems i’m with Paidon & Scripture on this. IOW there will be afterlife correction & it will involve suffering & the wrath of God.

Just as with the correcting in this life with those who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, who are walking by the Spirit, taking their crosses daily, crucifying the flesh, & being transformed into His likeness, from glory to glory. Except we do not face His wrath.

UU would make the process of salvation different from how it works in this life.

UU would also, arguably, make the process of salvation in this life pointless. Why bother. Why not instead go & enjoy the “pleasures of sin”? Then at death be instantly transferred to endless heaven. IOW eat your cake & have it too.

UU also seems to require ignoring a ton of Scripture. Well, unless you’re a Pantelist or Preterist, perhaps. Even then.

Is UU being believed because it’s Scriptural, or because the flesh likes the idea of it, for various reasons, e.g. unsaved family members?


#20