The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Universalism not supported in church history

Sometimes, to bring back balance, drastic counter measures are needed :slight_smile:

Falling off the horse on the other side, doesn’t bring back balance. :wink:

Emphasizing both kinds of importance, in realistic and practical relations to each other, would bring back the balance.

This looks like an old thread, but I just noticed it and may be able to help some with the question of how the Eastern Orthodox view things.

First, I will copy a paragraph of the book “The Orthodox Church” by Bishop Kallistos Ware. It seems that this is the introductory book to Orthodoxy recommended first by all English speaking Orthodox.

“Hell exists as a final possibility, but several of the Fathers have none the less believed that in the end all will be reconciled to God. It is heretical to say that all must be saved, for this is to deny free will; but it is legitimate to hope that all may be saved. Until the Last Day comes, we must not despair of anyone’s salvation, but must long and pray for the reconciliation of all without exception. No one must be excluded from our loving intercession. ‘What is a merciful heart?’ asked Isaac the Syrian. ‘It is a heart that burns with love for the whole of creation, for humans, for the birds, for the beasts, for the demons, for all creatures.’ Gregory of Nyssa said that Christians may legitimately hope even for the redemption of the devil.”

The Orthodox have a way of not answering all questions. There is a respect for ‘mystery.’ The problem with saying that all must be saved is with saying it at this point within time. If you have read “The Great Divorce,” by Lewis, this may remind you of the problem he described there. So, the Orthodox will not say that all must be saved, but privately, I think that most of us expect it. One reason is the Orthodox understanding of evil. It is neither created nor eternal, therefore it does not exist. It is a lack. Your free will is like your breath. You can choose to blow a bubble of any evil shape with your being, but it has no real substance. It seems impossible that something like that could last forever. Indeed, you frequently hear Orthodox say that evil will cease to be and, since none of us believe in annihilation, this seems to imply something else. However, the Orthodox do not say that something else. We are coming up against something difficult to understand, so that any explanation might mislead in some way, just as Lewis suggested.

Thanks for that Gregory. I have had very little to do with either Roman Catholicism or Eastern Orthodox theology but found your quote very interesting. As for the RC view one of my favourite authors at the moment is the Scottish Jesuit priest Gerry Hughes who seems to be as close to a universalist as it might be possible within that system - he certainly inspires me.

But I think any horse will confirm that, having two riders on it’s back with one leaning wildly to one side is only balanced by another lunatic leaning wildly to the opposite side. :wink:

That being said, did you know there was a fairly major theological debate some decades ago about whether Paul fell of his horse or not? :open_mouth: :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:

I have a close friend who has left the American Christianity scene completely and has embraced the E.O. entirely. He’s an interesting fellow (a mensa member :open_mouth: ) and did explain that the E.O. is the real original church and that their oral tradition outweighs scripture (!) and that they do believe that eternal damnation is a rare anomaly. :question:
:bulb:

Now - he belongs to an American ‘sect’ of E.O. but if I had time (i don’t) I’d like to investigate all this…

As one of my spiritual mentors/ teachers is fond of saying; “The Reformation stopped well short of reforming much…” :wink:

In spite of a lot of movement in recent years into a more biblical direction, the vast majority of the Western church remains very institutional, and is in reality little more than “Protestantized” Catholicism in form.

We do have the church history supporting universal reconciliation.

Lessons From Church History, Volume 1, Dr. Stephen E. Jones

gods-kingdom-ministries.net/ … -volume-1/

Lessons From Church History, Volumes. 2-4

gods-kingdom-ministries.net/ … -volume-2/