Universalist Atonement Model??

[anon12438761]

For those who need a little education on the terminology here (like me): en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_anthropology

[Cindy_Skillman]

Guy, you said:

Jason: In my short time here i’ve already noticed a few things. 1) You like putting words in my mouth. I didn’t say I was defending free will; in fact I’m fine with the supralapsarianism of de Bèze to Pink. ( I mean, I get that we start from different platforms. You assume that God would have to remove man’s ability to repent; I say repentence is granted by God) We are never gonna have productive conversations if go well beyond what I actually say. The main thrust of the post was about post mortem/ pre resurrection consciousness. ‘Continuance’ to quote Irenaeus.

I never denied a belief in a Triune God. Don’t muddy the water. I said I suscribe to a Monist anthropology. I only hinted at a Dualist anthropology, but never mention Trichotomism at all. Even if I had, I don’t see the connection.

2. Just say what you gotta say, man. Don’t be all Tevye with the ‘on the other hand’ type circles. If you believe curtailing someones free will doesn’t amount to curtailing someones free will, just say so. And c’mon, that ‘metaphysical account of trinitarian theism’ paragraph. Even you know that’s jabberwockey. As Alice pointed out to Mr. Dumpty, you just can’t make words mean whatever you like. We’re talking past each other.

Oh, one more. Patristic universalists? You can’t be Patristic anything apart from orthodox church recognition

This is me speaking to you in my moderator voice – just to let you know the character of this board and the sort of interactions we like to see between our membership.

I realize Jason is wordy, but he does this because he wants to cover all bases. And he (like the rest of us) will sometimes, in his humanness, make assumptions from what people say and perhaps get the shading of their opinions wrong. I don’t always understand what he says, but he is the fairest person I know – or at least he very definitely tries to be. If he’s misunderstood your pov, please say so and leave it at that. On this board we work very hard to treat one another with courtesy and to give one another the benefit of the doubt. I assure you that Jason (and pretty much anyone else currently actively posting here) sincerely attempts to read what you say and not read into it. If he’s failed at that, then by all means say so, but do that with courtesy and the assumption that he’s done it accidentally until you have the history with him to think otherwise.

[SLJ]

Hi, Guy, welcome to the forum!

I haven’t read all the posts here, but speaking for myself, I reject the penal substitutionary atonement model, which is what I grew up believing, but haven’t yet settled on an alternative.

Who would be the ‘sin bearer’ for a repentant post mortem individual?

Christ. I don’t understand why that poses a difficulty? He has already borne the sins of the world (whatever that means in terms of atonement theory.) It is finished.

2 Co 5:14 For the love of Christ controls us, having concluded this, that one died for all, therefore all died;

However, not all are yet alive in Him.

Sonia

[A_Guy]

. I assure you that Jason (and pretty much anyone else currently actively posting here) sincerely attempts to read what you say and not read into it. If he’s failed at that, then by all means say so, but do that with courtesy and the assumption that he’s done it accidentally until you have the history with him to think otherwise.

Fair enough.

About the Abrahamic Covenant; is all of humanity naturally included by an encompassing default setting? If so, is that setting found in us or in God?

I think you were right on how one singular atonement model can’t contain all that Jesus accomplished on the Cross. He ratified the covenant; also ransomed us from the block; gained victory over sin; was our propitiation; and more…

[Cindy_Skillman]

Thanks, Guy – I appreciate your fairness.

The Abrahamic covenant as I understand it would include all the children of Abraham. Just winging it here, but from Romans I guess I’d say that means all the people who are currently ‘in Christ’ – and as new people are “grafted into the olive tree,” it would then include them also.