New techniques have yielded a date for the Shroud of Turin to the time of Christ.
Well, not exactly new – the tests date from the late 90s to the early 00s. Still, I keep track of Shroud tests at least casually up to date, and I hadn’t heard of fiber tensile strength tests before!
There is a metric ton of scientific data pointing to a suitably ancient origin and scientifically unknown process, unduplicatable by ancient methods, for the generation of the Shroud; and really only test against an early date, the Carbon Dating tests. There is conflicting information about those tests: for example, the people who did them (I’ve read their reports) are VERY VERY CLEAR that they did NOT test the medieval patchwork: they were careful about not taking material from it or its seam, and they could have easily told the difference when setting up the test that they had the wrong material. On the other hand, the two men chiefly responsible for inventing the two kinds of standard Carbon dating methods available, both have agreed independently that the tests had been botched somehow and should be redone.
It’s grimly amusing to watch modern reconstruction artists trying to claim they’ve proved how the Shroud was made by managing to mimic a few key details – while being totally unable to mimic all the key details. (And their methods are mutually exclusive so couldn’t be combined to create the end results.)
Indeed. Assuming the Shroud of Turin is a 14th-century creation, I do not see why people cannot easily re-create it using 14th-century techniques. All the supposed recreations I’ve seen are pretty sad.
I remember back in the 1990s going to the Shroud center of John Jackson (member of STURP) just an hour’s drive north of me in Colorado Springs. (Click: shroudofturin.com/index.html ) He said that if the Shroud were fake, the STURP team would have examined the Shroud for about 20 minutes before finding that it was obviously and inescapably a 14th-century creation. Instead, the more they looked the more amazed they became.
I’m not committed to the Shroud being authentic, but I lean towards authenticity.
This is fascinating. I wonder what [tag]Holy-Fool-P-Zombie[/tag] thinks of this.
I learn towards it being genuine. But I would have to look at two factors first:
What is the consensus of the Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox and Protestant churches?
What is the current thinking, of the scientific community? With all their tests, run so far?
Randy, how do you imagine it could be authentic in light of the carbon dating?
Personally, I don’t place that much faith in carbon dating. It is accurate only if particular questionable assumptions coincide with fact. Please consider the following:
From “the Scientific American”:
From “Amazing Discoveries”:
Thanks paidion. Do you think the shroud is authentic? If so, what are your reasons?
I didn’t say it was authentic. I said it might be. It depends on whether or not, future scientific discoveries, invalidate or refine, Carbon-14 methodologies.
I do remember, LLC saying on this forum, something to this effect: that Carbon-14 dating, is full of holes.
And if you Google “is carbon 14 dating accurate”, you find scientists, etc., that side with LLC.
But I don’t know. I never dated someone named Carbon-14.
I have no basis on which to judge with certainty whether or not it is authentic. For that reason, I have no thoughts on the subject of its authenticity.
I’ve been reading a book called “Test the Shroud” by Mark Antonacci. He believes the shroud is authentic. His theory is that the shroud’s image was caused by neutron radiation. Here are some poignant quotes from the book:
Now, I don’t know if Hedges’s other reasons for dismissing the possibility are good; I haven’t gone to the primary source for the statement (I probably should). But his reason here seems to be a form begging the question; he’s basically saying since naturalism couldn’t explain neutron radiation occurring and producing the shroud’s image, then it must not have happened. In other words, he is presupposing naturalism!
So for me the biggest hurdle for believing in the Shroud’s authenticity is that the carbon dating results just so happened to ascribe Medieval origin. It would be one thing if the C-14 results said the Shroud was from a time period that hadn’t already claimed to have been the time of the Shroud’s origination, but the fact that the results matched the time period that someone had claimed prior to the carbon dating, leaves me skeptical.