The Evangelical Universalist Forum

What DOES “Reconcile” actually mean?

willieH: How-D :smiley:

The “reconciliation” of GOD, like Himself – is an UNCHANGING thing. It was ALREADY DONE before it was/is/will be manifest in FINITE terms…

That “reconciliation” for EACH of us, is via the TRIAL of FIRE which is NOW… Most do not recognize this.

MOST center their views of the WORD of GOD and “It’s DOINGS”, upon themselves… They begin with their OWN Salvation, and often, are found using it as a measure or tool… to thereby define OTHERS. All the while they might think this “pounding of their SPIRITUAL chest” is somehow grand… but in the end, with each “beating”, they are removing part of themselves. :cry:

I would like to note my 2 cents :blush: (in SEVEN points) about what our “reconciliation” IS, and how it (even though ETERNALLY done), is worked (by GOD) in each of us as we walk through [the FIRE of] this life… You are welcome to agree or disagree, doesn’t matter to me… :bulb:

As a preface I would like to note that — YHVH writes IN His WORD, that He DIRECTS the pathway of men, which is UNBEKNOWNST to them – Jer 10:23 – Prov 20:24 – and that His WORD is that “WAY”, and in it is contained TRUTH (of each of us), and that “WAY” is “LIVING”… (without particular regard to the principles of GOOD and EVIL… for BOTH are KNOWN and DECLARED by Him, before they are manifest in His MAKING of them – Rom 9:21)

However, I would like to ask that you would note that I hereby begin this description by placing myself aside and, and in that admitted humility which is QUITE accurate and thoroughly deserved by me (for I have failed MUCH more than succeeded in serving Him in my life), might I begin and end this 7 point process with the Alpha and Omega of ALL things which are MADE – John 1:3 - Col 1:16

[size=150]1.[/size] The [size=150]ALPHA[/size]JESUS CHRIST was “gold” that was TRIED in FIRE… That “FIRE” was the SUFFERING of PERFECTION – Heb 2:10 – and that FIRE, took place while He lived as a MAN upon the earth. – Rev 3:18

[size=150]2.[/size] He said that ALL would become subject to the FIre – Mark 9:49 – as Pneuma suggests, this is a process in each that GOD is DOING… the “building” of a SPIRITUAL temple which makes (by its individual conclusions) ALL into LIGHT. We do not have anything to do with transferring our inherent DARKNESS into LIGHT… this is the Creation of GOD.

[size=150]3.[/size] 1 Cor 3:11-15 – within this life are the events of DARKNESS done …and in their “doing”, consumed, never to be again. Each lie one tells, or adultery one commits, are events of darkness that are disappearing into the past of finite time, that are NOT held against us – 2 Cor 5:19 – as our indivduality unfolds during the FINITE revelation of our reconciliation. This process is eliminating DARKNESS from us as each moment passes… and in the end result, only LIGHT shall BE left… Just how much LIGHT is seen, is the account of each of us… In each is a portionate LIGHT of the Majesty of JESUS CHRIST, which, according to GOD is created in each, for HIS GLORY… It does not demean us, nor exalt us, …it GLORIFIES HIM.

The proportionate LOSS that appears, is the NAKEDNESS of SHAME which will bring forth TEARS due to this LOSS, which GOD in His kind wonder and wisdom, shall DRY – Rev 21:4

[size=150]4.[/size] It was foretold that HE would “baptize” with the Holy Ghost (Spirit of GOD) and FIRE. JESUS CHRIST is the SAME, yesterday, today and forever, so the process of HIS BAPTISM, has been going on since the BEGINNING (“alpha”) which HE IS (was), and will be continuing unto the END, which (“end/omega”) He also, IS – Rev 1:8 The doings of WORD are not “time oriented”, rather are ETERNAL…

The Scriptures note there is ONE LORD, ONE FAITH, and ONE BAPTISM – Eph 4:5 – These are of the WORD, …and ARE performed IN each individual by the ONLY LORD of MEN which is the WORD of YHVH GOD, …and IS the ONLY BAPTISM which immerses ALL within It, with no respect (partiality) toward any man/woman – Acts 10:34 – Eph 6:9 – based upon the ONLY FAITH …which IS the Faith of JESUSGal 2:20

Men do not have a “faith” that is their own… The TRUTH is that it is HIM “authoring” and “finishing” Himself IN us – Heb 12:2 – within this FINITE life, we only receive a part of Him – Rom 12:3 – and because it is portionate and (temporarily) not COMPLETE, we “see” darkly, and partially, with they eyes of hearts which are DECEITFUL ABOVE ALL THINGS – Jer 17:9 – inherently adverse to Him in this realm, for the purpose of HIS revealing GOOD via the accompanying revelation of EVIL.

[size=150]5.[/size] This “Baptism” is the immersion into the FINITE (lake of fire) during which and in which ALL the details of the WORD which was DECLARED of them occurs, and said immersion, …IS that “Baptism” – Isaiah 46:10 – for we are ALL concluded as SINNERS and UNBELIEVERS – BY GOD, BY His WORDRom 3:23 – Rom 11:32

[size=150]6.[/size] GOD IS a CONSUMING FIRE – Heb 12:29 – and IN HIM we live and move and have our being – Acts 17:28 – so irregardless of recognition… we ARE in the FIRE, …now. And that FIRE is CONSUMING the EVIL we each “do”…

[size=150]7.[/size] ALL portions (thoughts, deeds, manifestations) of YHVH are LIVING… for He is the GOD of the LIVING, not the DEAD – Luke 20:38 – This includes ALL KNOWLEDGE He possesses within Himself (Good AND Evil).

We (collectively) are the unfolding of the LIVING KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL as has/is/will be KNOWN in the HEART of YHVH… This KNOWLEDGE is HOLY… for it depicts the CHARACTER and STATE of YHVH which is CONTINUALLY ALL MERCIFUL, full of PEACE, and IS, …LOVE1 John 4:8 – Psalm 136 (all verses)

Once the ENTIRETY (complete) of the KNOWLEDGE of Good and Evil as KNOWN and DECLARED by the WORD of God is reached, then shall the “END” …BE… which is the WORD subject unto the ONE which put all things under It – 1 Cor 15:28 – and ALL that were immersed in the manifestation (LIVING “telling”) of the KNOWLEDGE of the WORD, which reveals GOOD and EVIL… shall be RETURNED where they began… Isaiah 55:11 – each FULL of the LIGHT of YHVH, to the porportionate and PERFECT degree of His ELECTION – Rom 9:11 – and the counsel of HIS WILL – Eph 1:11 – as KNOWN in HIS WORDJESUS CHRIST… the [size=150]OMEGA[/size].

Peace… :smiley:

…willieH :sunglasses:

Hi Sonia, it might be just the different ways we express things that is causing the confusion. However, the scripture stating (“If I am lifted up, I will draw all men to myself”) is not about reconciliation but about being saved, for the LIFTING UP is speaking of the RESURRECTION of Christ not His death which is what reconciled us to God.

Look at it this way, death has already been defeated, yet death is still around.

Now did the apostle preach that death was still around or did they preach death was defeated?

They preached death was defeated but we do not yet see deaths defeat; however, we see Jesus.

I believe everything was finished at His death and resurrection, but we just do not see or believe it yet.

IMO this is why man is ALREADY reconciled by His death and if reconciled by His death shall be saved by His life.
IMO one of the biggest problems man has in understanding is that we do not know our place in Christ.

The scriptures speak of those who are asleep in Christ and those who are dead in Christ. Most believe that the dead in Christ and those asleep in Christ are speaking of the same thing, but I do not believe this is the case.
Jesus said if you believe in me you will never die, those who are asleep in Christ are those who came to believe on Him in this life.
Those who are dead in Christ are those who have yet to see their place in Christ, they simply have not woken up to the FACT that they have been reconciled by the death of Christ. They too are in Christ, but they just don’t know it.

Sonia…and now here you’ve changed things around to say God is reconciled to man, whereas the scripture says that it is man that needs to be reconciled. The breech is not on God’s part, but on the part of rebel man. God has done no wrong, He does not need to make any change. It is we who need to change–reconcile-- to line up with Him. God has commended his great love to us by the peace offering of Christ. Will the rebel son continue to wallow in the pigsty, or will he come with his elder brother to return to the Father? It is the rebel who must be reconciled, not the Father, and with the elder brother come to show Father’s love and good will, the rebel will indeed return.

Bad choice of wording on my part sis, tis why I also said right after it
God’s part towards man was done 2000 years ago, but man’s part towards God is not yet done
I am not good with putting my thoughts to pen so I often repeat what I am trying to convey in other words to help clarify what I am saying. Seems even this brings confusion

Sonia—I don’t see it as a call to be reconciled to what God has done–rather as a call to be reconciled to God Himself–that is a call to fellowship. I don’t know if you mean it this way, but your words give me the impression of reconciliation as a need to be resigned to something that God chose to do.

Sonia maybe it is the different perspectives we are coming at this from.
Gods perspective is that it is already a done deal (death has already been defeated) Mans perspective is death is still active and taking hold of the souls of men.
Faith is that which is not seen, so to still see death as alive and taking a hold of the souls of men is not by walking faith.
I mean no disrespect with the above statement, as to say that anyone who still sees death as alive and taking hold of the souls of men have no faith, for we all move from faith to faith.
Jesus’ first recoded words were “ I must be about my Father’s business”
His last recorded words were “ it is finished”
What was finished?
The Father’s business was the reconciliation of the whole world and Jesus said it is finished.
Mankind simply needs to be awakened to this fact and walk in the faith that they have already been reconciled and death will have no more power over them.
God bless

Perhaps what some of you are trying to get at involves (although I haven’t done the research on Greek tenses where reconciliation is mentioned) the “already/ not yet” tension often found in scripture; such as in Hebrews, where it is stated that all (things) have been subjected to Christ, but we do not yet SEE all subjected.

God has stated what (from His perspective) the ultimate “eternal” reality (already) is, but we do not yet see that outwardly manifested in every case at this time.