Yep all creation is subjected to futility of thinking waiting to be set free from the bondage to corruption.
Sigh. Best wishes on that.
I am glad you all thought George’s post was as helpful as I did!
That’s great Matt that you are interacting with his comments on TCP. I saw how you were ‘tearing it up’ over there…bravo.
That’s a very interesting thought… we do know that ECT evolved out of an abusive hierarchy of both Church and state. And yes, I agree that it has given way to a cycling pattern across the generations and also creating the need to make up ever more heinous doctrines to cover and explain the original idea (like the creation of Calvinism etc.,)
So sorry to hear that. But glad George’s words were timely for you.
Yes! that’s the narrow way, admitting first we are wrong!
You may want to check this out, Phillip 
I think this will really encourage you
Hi Phillip
I have to say that I like George’s spirit and appreciate the article but I would disagree on some points:
He says:
He seems to imply that he has listed characteristics which define ‘false teachers’
I maintain that he may be correct ONLY if by 'false teacher, he means a teacherwho in his character is FALSE (ie insincere, not genuine). His list by no means defines a teacher who teraches falsehoods which, IMO, is what the scriptures are referring to and to which they give examples which are not necessarily exhaustive.
Then at the end of his article he says:
- possibly suggesting that if an ‘essential’ is mis-taught, then we might regard the teacher as false.
So which is it?
Whilst I regard his friend’s attitude to be shocking and sad, I think we ought to understand that if his friend truly believes that George is sending more people to hell then it is understandable (though he should have had tears in his eyes).
For fundamentalist ECTers, ‘false teacher’ pretty much equals ‘anyone who doesn’t teach ECT’.
Actually, for far too many Christians, ‘false teacher’ equals ‘anyone who doesn’t teach what they personally believe to be correct teaching’.
Take a look at the Amazon reviews and comments on Rob Bell’s Love Wins if you want to see the vehemence, vitriol even, that ECTers direct at anyone who dares stick their head above the parapet and denounce ECT. The only reason books such as *The Inescapable Love of God *and The Evangelical Universalist haven’t garnered the same opprobrium from the fundies is because they haven’t reached the wide, ‘everyman’ audience Rob Bell has - more’s the pity.
Shalom
Johnny
Have you guys checked my thread here?
I think you’d be encouraged and given some things to think about.
Pilgrim,
You said:
I agree, there is difference between the teachings that make someone a false teacher and the character qualities that make up a false teacher. The Scriptures themselves characterize false teachers as George delineated and we are told “by their fruits we shall know them”.
George said:
I believe George’s point is that it is a huge clue to the identification of a false teacher when you encounter their “lying, greed and sensuality” underneath the teaching. The other point he was making is that within orthodox Christianity there are enormous differences that are held by Christians who truly believe they are correct and are not trying to deceive anyone. I commented on George’s post that, “…to reject our brothers and sisters in Christ on the basis of universalism would logically call for a rejection of the Calvinists and Arminians of each other. Ironically their doctrines are farther from one another than the Ultimate Restoration doctrine is to either of them!”
But at the base it is, as you say, the fear involved. It all comes down to a vicious cycle of fear which has been activated by the Church: If you entertain any alternative idea about the nature of hell it could be the very thing that sends you there! And like you said, if you really believe that this teaching will send others to hell then it is understandable that George’s friend thinks he is doing the right thing.
Hi Johnny,
I wrote a review of Love Wins with my testimony of faith and love in Jesus Christ explaining my “orthodox base” of 40 years. I tried to sympathize with those who had never considered UR before and tread graciously and gently. I didn’t expect people to agree but I was not prepared for the 150+ comments I got where I was called a “spawn of satan”, a “deceiver” and that I was sending others to hell and that I needed to go and fast for a week and cleanse myself of this “demonic teaching”.
Yes, it is unfortunate that people are not grappling with Parry or Talbott and that instead Bell probably has left the Church thinking they have dealt with the issue and put it to rest. I am hopeful that Kevin Miller’s Hellbound will open this up in a far more challenging and exhaustive way. I believe he has included interviews by both Parry and Talbott which may boost awareness of them as legitimate voices to contend with.
Hi Phillip
Sorry to hear you had such a rough time on Amazon. I have found people can be incredibly rude and spiteful in their comments - although not normally so much in the actual reviews themselves. A lot of it is to do with the cloak of anonymity, I suppose. On the one hand I’m amazed Christians stoop so low. But on the other, I know how easy it is to get riled by something somebody else says, and fire off an offensive riposte in return. To my shame, I have done this myself on occasion.
I got involved in a pretty heated debate with some ECTers on Amazon a while back, and said some things in the heat of the moment of which I am not proud. However, in His grace the Lord put me right. And actually, I have found that the stronger my EU beliefs become, the more gracious I find myself being able to be towards those with opposing views. Most of the time, that is. A certain Mr Driscoll still has the power to send me into full fulmination mode 
.
Now I have a couple of personal rules (which I break as often as I break every other ‘rule’ in my life, ie most of the time ) a) to read though my posts reflectively before sending them; and b) not to post to any forum while under the influence of alcohol .
Serious point: internet trolling - bullying, harrassment, abuse, call it what you will - is a sadly all-too pervasive phenomenon. In certain circumstances it can lead to depression, even suicide, on the part of the victim. Thank God the EU forum is almost completely free of this sort of behaviour - a testament, I would say, to the fruit of EU.
And another serious point - made many times by many others, but well worth repeating: we are made in the image of God, and we *make ourselves *in the image of the God we serve. If our God is a merciless tyrant who punishes sinners eternally, with no hope of redemption, we are almost by definition in danger of in turn becoming merciless ourselves (like John Calvin). The fact that so many Christians who *profess *to a belief in ECT are not actually merciless fiends but good, kind, loving people is highly suggestive to me. Suggestive that a) either they don’t *really *believe in ECT at all - they are ‘functional universalists’, as you so perceptively identify on your website; or b) that the love of God is working in their hearts, and one day they will see the light and convert to EU, as more and more of us seem to be doing.
But as for those who vilify EUs as ‘the spawn of satan’. As for those who pronounce judgement on us so gleefully, the “Rob Bell is going to get his one day, and so will you if you follow him” brigade. Well, perhaps it is *they *who might be in for a shock when the sheep and the goats are separated …
Shalom
Johnny
If Joe Bloe calls Jim Schlim a “false teacher”, then he means that Jim is teaching things with which he disagrees.
People who are not greatly concerned about those who teach that which is contrary to their own beliefs seldom, if ever, use the term “false teacher.”
the interesting thing about that point, i think, is that if we think about what the Bible calls false teaching, it usually is spread by people that are greedy, lustful, powerhungry, or just afraid and abused, as said before…so for me that takes the relative approach that most people love to us, that you outline above so well, and turns it on its head.
false teaching, i think, is more objectively defined in the Bible as something perpetuated by powerhungry, greedy, lustful, abused or abusive people in such a way as to continue their unhealthy cycles. i don’t know if i’m saying that clearly enough…but i mean that a powerhungry preacher would preach that which maintains their power, and the same down the list. so the teaching itself may not be false (though it likely is), but the way it is presented, edited, emphasised, perpetuates the cycle of power, lust, greed, abuse, to which the preacher is enslaved. if i’ve made sense so far, i think the Bible’s contention would be that we ought to shun such things as they will be chains around us.
an example of false teaching would be legalism and Gnosticism, two types of enslaving dogma that Paul wrote extensively against. those that preached it were in chains themselves and keen to wrap chains around others. they edited the Gospel til it fit with their own desires…and God was not pleased.
interestingly, i think i could state this whole idea even more simply. false teaching is that which enslaves us. God’s true teaching sets us free…from fear, guilt, shame and harmful cycles. as a contrast, Jesus promises LIFE and that more abundantly!
could it be that the way to judge a teaching or a teacher is by their fruit? ie, do they cause the fruits of the Spirit to flourish, or do they cause fear and death, and hold up God to ridicule?
anyone else seeing ECT in this? i know i am.
I finally took time to read the OP and fully agree with George. I too have been saddened by friends and family who have labelled me a false teacher and have stopped or greatly diminished their relationship with me; and the phrase “false teacher” is often used. It’s interesting that these same people who label me so have not and will not look with me at what scripture actually says.
So you think what they are saying about you is false?
Thanks Corpselight, yes, “by their fruits you will recognize them”!!! Matthew 7:16
That’s the all time frustrating thing is that they will not allow any discussion out of fear that any entertaining of the thought will be the thing that sends them to hell(!) Or it can also be just plain pride in being right: they believe they already know what Scripture teaches. I am sad with you brother.
Hi Phillip
I couldn’t agree more. But we also believe that many teachings are ‘false’ and if we believe so, yet remain silent or present ourselves differently, then we become hypocrites.
We must, in love, state what we believe to be true regardless of the consequence to ourselves. By doing so, we are implicitly (in another’s mind at least) letting them know that they are teaching falsehoods. Many of them will understandably feel threatened by this and infer that we are labelling them as ‘false teachers’. If we do not recognise that then I believe we are in danger of showing them disrespect which may even come across as condescending.
As for fruits, yes I agree, but we must ask ourselves what has been the fruit of teaching eternal hell-fire? Has it not been that of instilling fear into the hearts and minds of fragile souls? Is it not increasing the no. of psychiatric problems? How many thousands of people have rejected ‘christ’ because they have understood (long before us) the inherent evil in such a doctrine?
So is it ‘essential’ to teach that God is Love and that Love is victorious? It says something about the character and nature of God.
wow.
Some people amaze me.
Everyone should amaze you.
I’m gonna wing this one and right off the top of my head I’m gonna take a stab at it
A “false teacher” by definition would be one who teaches that which is false.
Would probably include one who claims to speak for God and doesn’t have a clue.
Or One who claims God gave a “Special message” to them alone and it contradicts what the Bible plainly says.
E.G. “Rev.” Sun yung Moon claimed that he was also God in the flesh come to complete the “unfinished work” of Christ while Christ plainly said, “It is finished” and Revelation says Jesus is the “first and the last”