Preservation of life would surely supersede truth telling. Similarly who would condemn a mother for stealing to feed a starving child if there was no other recourse?
precisely 
good point and while I have no problem with Jesus being referred to in that manner !, your response touches on the topic at hand
what is truth and how important is it ? how is it defined, while still leaving wiggle room for others ? in other words
there must be diversity in truth while still drawing a line in the sand 
If Molech be God, there would be no truth. Rather than follow such a monster, curse him and be cast into hell. There you will find all others who hate him, including perhaps, a God worth worshipping.
‘‘a GOD worth worshipping’’ is one who can bring it about that every stain is removed [including delusionalism] every sinner turned to a saint ,without trampling the freedom of said creatures 
and there it is ‘‘the truth’’ for at the one end of the spectrum is Calvinism at the other libertarianism and the competing theories in-between , but just off to the side of the spectrum is a dot, sitting by its self [much like a black hole in that it will eventually suck everything back into itself ] there it is where few there be that find it , ‘‘the truth’’ magnificent isn’t it
Ballou taps his nose
I think his taunt is saying something like that
I hope my position doesn’t appear to be legalistic. I (try to) live a spirit of radical Truth and a spirit of radical and unconditional Love not because I’m trying to follow a set of laws, or because absolutes are easy. But because I believe Yeshua taught this spirit and because I endeavour to live it. I believe it’s the best way to live as an individual and as a participant in any society – liberal or fascist. I believe it is of the salt and light that we are all called to be. Yes, I am entirely aware of the complex factors of living in a wicked world. But I try not to fear the “failures” that may arise in following Yeshua; I think there is a reason He says “seek first” in His sermon on Kingdom living. I truly believe that I can move mountains for Yahweh. I believe we all could if we had enough faith-fulness. Call me delusional, an idealist, morally repugnant, a Judaizer, arrogant, but I don’t believe I should ever diminish Truth and Love because I think my way of deceit or violence might seem to work better in some instances, from the human, and thus limited, knowledge and perspective that I have. This is, in my view, one of the major purposes of the Hebrew scriptures – to show us the inevitable brokenness of just that sort of ‘me’ thinking. And I hope I don’t sound “superior” about this. I’m a failure at Yeshuan-living through and through. Not in any sense of false-humility, I’m being serious – I’m struggling with heaps of sin at the moment – but I do hope I never lose sight of what Yeshua wants me to be: as perfect as Yaweh, as He demonstrated and taught.
WAAB, God sent a lying spirit to one of the prophets
Indeed.
WAAB, I am not going to bring up all the references. But we have three outstanding, God blessing situations in which lying promoted that individual to safety, wealth or power and they were not penalized by God for it but again blessed. Jacob, Joseph, and Rahab.
You can fight it all you like, there is no Law against lying. There is only a Law against bearing false witness (that is give false testimony against another in the court of law) concerning a iniquity or transgression.
Let your yes be yes, and your no be no.
Allan,
Those refer to oaths.
Numbers 30:2
When a man makes a vow to the LORD or takes an oath to obligate himself by a pledge, he must not break his word but must do everything he said.
“He committed no sin, and no deceit was found in his mouth.”
Again, as I shown earlier, proving that deceit (a lie) is not equated as a sin. Such statement would be redundant, since sin would have included deceit, but it doesn’t because it isn’t.
Jesus did not sin, and besides being without sin, he didn’t lie.
Got any more?
I wonder what it is that makes lying lake of fire worthy, since it does not appear to fall under the category of sinning…Any thoughts?
Craig, did you already address Colossians 3:9?
“He does not treat us as our sins deserve or repay us according to our iniquities.” The second half of the sentence adds no new information, but is there for emphasis and poetic symmetry. But you know that already.
“Jesus did not sin.” In other words, and to say it again with even more emphasis, “No deceit was found in his mouth.”
Jesus is the son of God, the Father of Lights. He is not the son of the devil, the Father of Lies.
true , however I don’t see how this in any way councils out the point that student raised and the scriptural evidence he
used to support his position either
but back to how you arrive at what is true , how important truth is , and at what point does one draw a line in the sand ?
for example I believe j.w.'s at some stage will walk through those gates but does that mean I can simply ‘‘accept them’’ ?
or closer to home , some of the manybizarre Christians and Christian groups [more to the point]
and the outlandish nonsense they teach and practice ? 
am I allowed to say that or is that being too sensitive 
Okay - gotta’ point out: What you outline above is apparently what you have experienced of God (as I have) but it is not the bible picture at all. Rom. 8 outlines the idea that God sovereignly creates and fashions vessels of wrath so He can get glory when He destroys them and everyone sees how nice He is to the vessels of mercy and how wrathful He is to the vessels of wrath. So “foremost the meek servant of Man” doesn’t really have a lot of traction in that scenario. Biblically - only the man/God was meek and lowly of heart and that lambishness was only for a short season until He returns to smash the nations into bits.
So what we have is people seeing God as they wish (or have experienced) and picking out the parts of scripture which best resonate with their inward convictions and explaining how that is foremostely how God really is. I have no problem with that but just want to point out that IS how it’s done. A person’s biblical views are more a view into that person than a view into God’s nature.
Hi fb888, You seem to be referring to Romans 9 rather than 8 and your explanation of “the bible picture” in this passage is, in my opinion, a tragic misinterpretation of the Bible’s teaching which many of us on the forum have come to reject - through bible study and prayer, NOT wishful thinking or remaking God in our image. Many of the recommended materials on this forum address this central issue directly. I have found Jan Bonda, Tom Talbott and Julie Ferwerda particularly helpful.
I believe God loves everyone and has faith in everyone.
My brother tells me:
There is no God!
I do not call my brother a liar!
I tell my brother instead:
Believe it or not, God loves you and believes in you!
My brother does not call me a liar!.
COMMENTS?
Michael W
Ooops, I thought I did. I guess it didn’t post.
We don’t need to lie to each other.
Gods wrath always brings about restoration. Wrath is the word orgee. When He smashes those nations its the carnal nature/clay pots thats being smashed so the light inside can shine as in gideons army. When it says in revelation he rules with a rod of iron the word rule is shepherd. That same iron rod smashes the clay. Zeph 3:8,9 pour out all burning fire and wrath leads to pure speach and the goyim serving Him with one accord
The letter kills our natural mind sees literal destruction and harm. But the spirit gives life