Whose Faith?


#94

But that is kind of the point, (and you just said it very well) the point that God sent his heavenly son to his earthy sons and daughters to take away their sins, something that the law proved beyond a doubt they could not do for themselves. God showed his faithfulness in wanting the best for his creation.


#95

MM, As I said to Davo above… Jesus did not take away our sin. He showed us the way, and if we neither believe in, nor follow that way, our sin remains. As Isaiah says, “Cease to do evil, and learn to do good. Though your sins are as scarlet, they shall be white as snow.”


#96

But you gotta love the theme music from the Alan Parsons Project…


#97

There could indeed be echoes of this in terms of…


#98

Sure, I’d say that. But the BIG question is, “What do various people MEAN when they state that ‘Jesus is God’?”

1.When a Modalist (for example, a United Pentecostal) says “Jesus is God,” he means that God is a single divine Individual, and that His name is “Jesus.”

  1. The Trinitarian believes God is a Trinity. Therefore each member of the Trinity is God. Thus Jesus is God. Probably most evangelicals hold to this position.

  2. The early Christians affirmed that Jesus is God. Sometimes they used the word “God” to refer to the Father alone, and other times they used in in a generic sense, just as we often use “man” in a generic sense. Since you are the son of a human being, you are “man.” Since Jesus is the son of God, He is God (in the generic sense). This is the sense in which John 1:1 states “…and the Word was God.”


#99

This is the sense in which John 1:1 states “…and the Word was God.”
Paidion

Why not “The Word is God” , because the Word became flesh and dwelt among us therefore Jesus is God like the Word was God. It seems to me the Father is the source and from him came the Spirit and the Word.


#100

Steve, I think it is about our faith. There was an age old battle going on between the Israelites which seems to have started after the exodus from Egypt. It was between the sons of Ishmael(prodigal/"illegitimate) and the sons of Isaac( ones who followed the one true God). It was a house divided.
They were going by two different:

  1. faiths-beliefs about God
    2.Laws- the Jewish/Lev. law vs. the Law of Christ
    3.mountains- the Levitical law from Mount Sinai vs. the Law of Christ from Mount Horeb.
    4.trees- one bearing bad fruit vs. one bearing good fruit
  2. seeds- those of the physical seed of Abraham vs. those of the spiritual seed.
    In the end, they were separated by the final destruction of Jerusalem. I believe that those who stood in their faith in the one true God played a big part in making that happen. There are STILL many false religions and false beliefs that exist today. We must decide which faith to live by because there is only one that gives us true life.

#101

My point exactly.


#102

Our bodies are the temple of God.When we live in the Spirit of God according to his word, then God dwells among us. God dwelt among people many times in the past. For example, Exodus 29:45 says this: “I will consecrate the tent of meeting and the altar. I will also consecrate Aaron and his sons to minister as priests to Me. I will dwell among the sons of Israel and will be their God.”

This did not make them God. It did not make Jesus God, nor does it make us God.


#103

steve7150 wrote:
Why not “The Word is God” , because the Word became flesh and dwelt among us therefore Jesus is God like the Word was God. It seems to me the Father is the source and from him came the Spirit and the Word

Our bodies are the temple of God.When we live in the Spirit of God according to his word, then God dwells among us. God dwelt among people many times in the past. For example, Exodus 29:45 says this: “I will consecrate the tent of meeting and the altar. I will also consecrate Aaron and his sons to minister as priests to Me. I will dwell among the sons of Israel and will be their God.”

This did not make them God. It did not make Jesus God, nor does it make us God.

Yes i agree but that was not my point.


#104

I have some related comments on this, from another thread here at [How should we feel about salvation?)


#105

Steve, From what I understand, the Spirit of God that is in man is the Word. When we obey that Spirit, the Word becomes flesh( the living Word) We dwell in God, God dwells in us and God dwells among us. Again, this does not make us God. God is not a man. Man is not God. However, God is a part of man.


#106

Steve, From what I understand, the Spirit of God that is in man is the Word. When we obey that Spirit, the Word becomes flesh( the living Word) We dwell in God, God dwells in us and God dwells among us. Again, this does not make us God. God is not a man. Man is not God. However, God is a part of man.

Well obviously you can come to your own understanding but i’m not aware of several of your conclusions being spelled out in scripture. This last conclusion, “God is a part of man” is ambiguous because scripture says that the Holy Spirit indwells us or may even fill us but i don’t know how that means “God is a part of man.”? The Holy Spirit can also leave us IMO therefore i don’t see it as part of us, like an arm or leg.


#107

One could ask the same question concerning the preceding clause. “Why not ‘The word is with God’?”

The answer to both questions is answered in the first clause “In the beginning was the Word.” All three clauses state the relationship between the Word and God IN THE BEGINNING.


#108

One could ask the same question concerning the preceding clause. “Why not ‘The word is with God’?”

The answer to both questions is answered in the first clause “In the beginning was the Word.” All three clauses state the relationship between the Word and God IN THE BEGINNING.

Right and good observation. But presumably God spoke after Jesus birth yet we never hear God’s word referred to as God anymore. So i guess it’s a symbolic expression and that description did in fact transfer to Jesus.


#109

Steve, man is made of more than just physical matter. We were given a spirit that comes from God.
Genesis 2:7 “And the Lord formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.”
Eccl. 12:7 Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it."

Besides that, I believe even physical matter is a part of God. One cannot create something out of nothing, and if God is the only thing that exists eternally, then everything created has to be a part of the eternal God.


#110

Commonly called… panentheism.


#111

The answer to both questions is answered in the first clause “In the beginning was the Word.” All three clauses state the relationship between the Word and God IN THE BEGINNING.

Why does “in the beginning” preclude the connection after “in the beginning”?


#112

Yes, “panentheism” (which literally means “all in God”).

Most Christians hold that God is transcendent—id est, that He it totally other than the creation.

And by the way, lest the idea enters someone’s head, I am NOT suggesting that what most Christians believe is necessarily true.


#113

While God is transcendent and far above His creatures the paradox is that He is imminent and pervades the universe. Theologians usually speak of the omnipresence of God within the universe. The way I put it is that there are ways we are like God and ways we are not. It’s the paradox of union and separation. His energy of love unites us to Him while His divine holiness separates us from Him. Holiness when applied to God refers to everything that separates Him from His creation and creatures:

God is self- sufficient, omnipresent, perfect, all-powerful, all-knowing, infinite, eternal, in control of the universe, infinitely wise, while we are not. There are Creator - creature distinctions.