The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Why affirm belief in Hell?

Sherman,

I completely share your response and agree that the traditional evangelical use of ‘hell’ has meant that judgment is not taken as seriously as universalists can be inclined to take it. You’re right that in addition to communicating that believers have received an exemption from judgment and the serious consequences of their choices, and thus can ignore judgment, it also means that non-Christians who may worry about painful realities facing them just ignore talking with us about God’s judgment because we who specialize in talk of it promote such an offensively narrow and unjust conception of it.

A corollary is that we live amid world views that in effect recognize Paul’s reap and sow principle, and Jesus’ exhortation that what we cast on the waters is apt to come back to us, because they sense there is some sobering law of cause and effect at work in the choices we make. But we are not apt to have the privilege of comparing notes concerning judgment and Jesus’ approach to what matters and what the solution is, because our version is so self-servingly parochial and abhorrent.

I can certainly see the rhetorical value in simply denying belief in “hell,” given that “hell” has long signified an everlasting condition of punishment. And then, once the shock wears off, one can explain precisely how one understands judgment and eternal salvation.

On the other hand, given that “hell” is a staple in Christian vocabulary, one might instead wish to keep it but also redefine it along purgatorial lines. Eastern Orthodox like myself find this a very easy move to make, given the long-standing distinction in Eastern eschatology between Hades (intermediate state) and gehenna (final state). But Protestants may find it difficult to incorporate the purgatorial conception into their eschatology. First of all, some Protestants teach some version of “soul sleep”: there is no conscious intermediate stage–there is simply awakening to the final judgment. Secondly, most Protestants find it difficult to explain the “jump” to perfect sanctification after death. Are we think of this as an instantaneous magical event that occurs apart from human cooperation? See Jerry Walls, “Purgatory for Everyone.”

Sergius Bulgakov, who taught an understanding of universal salvation similar to that of St Gregory of Nyssa, referred to gehenna as “universal purgatory.” This works for me.

I have one totally minor disagreement with Sherman: I do not think of universalism as a radically systematic theology. The move from Arminianism, with its free-will understanding of damnation, to universalism is an easy one to make: all God needs to do is to delay the final judgment until everyone gets on board with his program. The move from Calvinism is even easier: instead of Christ efficaciously dying for some (limited atonement), he efficaciously dies for everyone (universal atonement).

The move from Calvinism is even easier: instead of Christ efficaciously dying for some (limited atonement), he efficaciously dies for everyone (universal atonement).

Right and in Calvinism the overriding and central doctrine is that God’s will is all important and irresistible. Yet God’s will is that everyone s/b saved and come into a knowledge of the truth.

Fr Aidan
Thank you for those references. I was particularly interested in the Jerry Walls article and could not access it at your site but found it here:
firstthings.com/article/2002 … r-everyone

I find the following to be an extremely interesting thought and one which would make much sense of our present lives. It is a very challenging concept:

Thank you

Oops. Sorry about the bad link. If folks are unable to access the First Things site, then you should be able to get to the Jerry Walls’s article here: afkimel.files.wordpress.com/2014 … -walls.pdf

I just wouldn’t bother with the word ‘hell’ to be honest. I know there is the argument that it might help to use it, due to its presence in Christian vocabulary but I think because it’s used far, far more to describe a place of eternal conscious torment, it’s very hard to rid it of that particular connotation. And when you are arguing that the Bible never actually uses the word ‘hell’, I think your point is weakened should you yourself then use it

Sherman says that studying judgment scares the hell out of him. 2Tim 1 v 4 reminds us that we have not been given a spirit of fear but of power, love and a sound mind. 1 John 4 v 18 says There is no fear in love but perfect love casts out fear as fear had to do with judgment and whoever fears has not reached perfection in love. We love because He first loved us. I don’t think these verses mean that we should not fear God. You could print off many dozens of verses which say the opposite. I feared my parents, I think children generally do (or did anyway) but my folks loved me and were generally kind. I never thought they desired ill for me though I recall being frustrated and cross with them often. Jesus said that though we who are evil know how to give good gifts to our children how much more will our Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him. Maybe we need to distinguish between fear and being petrified? Sherman I I’m sure you are not petrified, just having a studied understanding and thus moved to care.
To return to the main point in this discussion. I tend to see the issue being one of communication. Clearly there are some to whom “hell” is a code word for ETC they are stuck in that traditional rut and may be immovable. Maybe keep away from provocation in that case. Others may well be highly open to being lead to address the absolute horror of traditional doctrine once they are truly faced with it. I feel that my change in this area came about in just such a way but that it was the Holy Spirit which lead me to start looking. Perhaps like Paul said its a case of being all things to all people to win some? ie, we use our prayerful noggin about each opportunity.

The radical change comes in not believing in (or redefining) Hell, for belief in Hell (ECT) is a foundational principle of both Calvinism and Arminianism. In fact the reason Calvinism limits the love of God and the scope of the atonement is because of their belief in Hell. And the reason Arminianism limits the sovereignty of God and the effectiveness/power of the atonement is because of their belief in Hell. And the reason both Calvinism and Arminianism explain away the passages that affirm UR is because of their belief in Hell. Both limit the atonement in either scope or power.

You’re correct Chris, I’m not pertrified, and was speaking in hyperbole, overstatement. I do like to use the word Hell and “redefine” it it conversation, like above. A few years ago my son had completed a year long school of discipleship at a large church in CO and we attended the “graduation” services. During the service I was inspired to share “prophetically” with the graduates that I believed God was saying to them something along the lines of; “I have called you as Ambassadors of my Kingdom, empowered you and given you authority to help bring My Kingdom to earth. Now go, Go, GO and love the Hell out of people!” Since then, loving the Hell out of people is something I try to do, and something that I’ve found God has done and is doing in my life.

I think maybe the “disconnect” between UR and Calv/Armini happens at least mostly because we’ve been given this “death deadline” (which your other topic, about post-mortum salvation dealt with, Sherman.)

This is a GIVEN. It is appointed to man once to die and after this the judgment. A tree lies where it falls. This we are taught to believe from the moment we understand language. But it’s NOT in the scriptures. :open_mouth: :unamused: So the Calvs see, and the Arminis see, that people go to their graves cursing God and they say, “How can such a person be saved?” If the death deadline is assumed (and it is), then there doesn’t seem to be any other option. For Calvs, as has been said, it’s pretty straight-forward once the deadline has been discredited. The set of unregenerate/reprobate is empty, because God in Christ emptied it – as it is His stated will that all men repent and believe the gospel.

For the Arminis it’s a bit more nuanced. Some way has to be found for God to succeed in persuading (without freedom-destroying persuasion) the reluctant to repent and believe. Logically, they will, once they become free enough to desire to do what is truly in their own best interest. A man who will choose never-ending torment (of whatever kind) over never-ending blessedness is either mentally ill, a prisoner of deception, or in bondage to his own perversity, pride, fear. This person must be freed – somehow – and once that’s done, I don’t think it makes the least bit of sense to suppose he would choose to remain in misery rather than come out and join the family in that never ending jubilee, feasting, and love that surely awaits those who surrender to love.

Yes, the death deadline is a huge assumption that is made in Infernalism. Also, the teaching on Judgment in Infernalism is so bad, well, most often it’s just so missing. Judgment is not taught on because they want to take all passages on judgment and interpret them to be about seperating the saved and unsaved, instead of the fire of truth burning the hell out of us all.

I am definitely right there with you in what you expressed in the original post. I guess if it came down to it; if asked, I’d say I don’t believe in hell, because it is a mistranslation of what scripture says, and it is not taught there either. I would quickly add to this however, that I do believe in judgment, because scripture does clearly teach that.