The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Will You, Aaron37, Answer Jason's Extensive Challenge?

Evangelical Universalism Arguments for Evangelical Universalism
#1

I would be interested in seeing you go toe to toe with his points- can you do it?

Inspiration (+Infallibility, Inerrancy) and Christian Living
#2

I expect we’ve seen all the answer in regard to that analysis we’re going to get from him here:

He does seem to be pondering how to put a correction to his original argument; he denies it has anything to do with anything I wrote (in that analysis at any rate).

I’m dubious that that’s even possible, from a topical standpoint–I tried to be very thorough–but he probably only means he hasn’t read it, and has no intention of doing so. (Thus no correction he’s considering could have come from that analysis.)

Edited to add: flicking through it briefly to get the impression of it being “condescending” wouldn’t count as reading it; and for that matter he may consider it condescending even without having seen that much of it! However, it isn’t impossible that he had read it in detail, either, when he wrote that reply. I’m personally doubtful he had done so at that point, but I could easily be wrong. :slight_smile:

#3

Pondering I am… and yes… I read all your post. I’m not to far off of my original post, but off… nonetheless. How much? to be determined… :wink:

There are 3 categories of people according to scripture that pertain to the book of life.

  1. People who have their names written in the Lamb’s book of life. Rev 20:15 ; 21:27.
  2. People who don’t have their names written in the Lamb’s book of life. Rev 13:8 ; 17:8.
  3. People who have their names blotted out of the Lamb’s book of life. Rev 3:5 ; 22:18-19.

Now, I’m pondering on when the names get written in and when the names get blotted out. I will pray in the Holy Ghost and meditate over these scriptures until I receive the revelation.( which I should of done before :blush: ) No time frame on when this will be… stayed tuned. :wink:

#4

So you really seriously believe that the transcendant God has a literal book and that this literal book is of some importance in figuring out dogma?

#5

As an outsider in all this - Aaron37’s claim that the next thing written by him on this subject will come directly from the Holy Spirit is very interesting. Assuming many here will disagree with whatever that turns out to be then I can only conclude that ‘the many’ (to borrow a phrase from some old Apostle or another :wink: ) will either be railing against God himself or by implication accusing Aaron37 of speaking via some ‘other’ spirit.

#6

Or in your case, Jeff, he’ll claim the the ‘natural’ man is spiritually discerned, in which case you’re SOL. Assuming, of course, that your name is currently blotted out. :unamused:

#7

I pray often and seriously, A, when writing exegetics and metaphysics either one. Detailed accuracy is a devotional exercise for me (and sometimes a corrective one.) Which, among other things, is why I spent the first part of the report explaining how I would not be critiquing your argument, because it wouldn’t be fair or accurate to do that.

I don’t make claims of revelatory authority, though. The positions I take are publicly accessible to anyone who is willing to check the data for themselves and do the logical math. They don’t have to take my prophetic word for it.

Anyway, I hope the Spirit will point out that you ought to be paying more attention to the details the Spirit brought you here to learn about (such as people being written into the book of life, for which we even gave you direct scriptural testimony from Malachi 3:16–a testimony I was careful to precisely qualify in terms of surrounding context. (Now added as a comment to the report thread, too, for ease of reference.) Or what people after the lake of fire judgment, inside and outside the New Jerusalem, are supposed to be doing in conjunction with the Holy Spirit, as testified to in RevJohn.)

But it’s possible He may not want you to pay attention to the details yet, either, for various reasons. (I can’t say those reasons are overly flattering ones… :wink: But it isn’t impossible.)

#8

Again, there are 3 categories of people pertaining to the book of life…Stayed tuned… :wink:

#9

Will your written version of this future revelation be fallible or infallible?

#10

Well, if the corrective version comes from me trying to intellectually figure it out ( like the first one) it will be infallible, but it I receive directly from the Holy Spirit it will be infallible. Of course, you always have the right not to accept my corrective version whether fallible or infallible… :wink:

Btw, Jim, is this commentary on this link fallible or infallible? :wink:
theoperspectives.blogspot.com/20 … eaven.html

#11

That writing of mine, like all of my writings, are fallible (capable of error) while it might be completely accurate. And the Holy Spirit revealed that article to me after much prayer including speaking in tongues and Bible study.

#12

Well, if the Holy Spirit revealed it to you how can it be fallible? The Spirit of truth does not lead anyone to write fallible commentaries… Unless, your unsure if the Holy Spirit inspired your writing… :wink:

#13

Revelation from the Holy Spirit is infallible while humans are typically fallible messengers of God’s revelation. The Bible writers are rare examples of infallible messengers from God.

Also, over 99% of all Pentecostal and charismatic churches would reject the teachings from a Christian who claimed to write infallible commentary.

#14

But Jim, I thought that you said that the Holy Spirit revealed it to you? And now you say that revelation from the Holy Spirit is infallible? How can you say that your article is both a) fallible and b) revealed by the Holy Spirit?
QUite Puzzled,
Roofus

#15

Good question. I suppose that I should have said that the Lord revealed to me the message in that article while I’m a fallible messenger. Does that make any sense to you?

#16

Nope… :confused: It either comes from God or it comes from you… :confused: I believe you just revealed the answer to us. :blush:

#17

I’m curious. Do you claim to be an infallible commentator every time you wait to hear confirmation from the Lord? If the answer is yes, then over 90% of charismatic and Pentecostal movement would reject your commentary. Or is the answer no?

#18

I tell you what I don’t do…I don’t claim to be lead by the Holy Spirit to write fallible commentaries. :blush: You might want to do some more pondering and pray in tongues some more over your commentary, brother Jim. :blush:

#19

Thank you for clarifying that.

But will you ever tell me what you do or will you only tell me what you don’t do?

And can you give me a single modern example of somebody who’s led by God in his or her comments?

And if there is at least one modern person who is led by God in his or her comments, then is that person a infallible commentator?

And is such a person recognized by many Pentecostal churches?

I’ve done extensive studies of the Pentecostal movement and I learned that no respected Pentecostal leader claims to be an infallible commentator.

#20

I don’t even think we can claim that the authors of the bible were special infallible messengers. They were vessels of clay just as we were. But just because the Spirit does use vessels of clay, doesn’t mean that they are therefore perfect.

Consider Jesus’ first miracle. He filled twelve imperfectly shaped clay jars with the most fragrant and tasteful wine there was. Is this not a fitting symbol for what he would do with his disciples? I’m sure they definitely took it as a sign of things to come…

…so, even the messengers who came into contact with the glorified Christ on this sphere of dirt were imperfect in many ways. I don’t think they were ever perfected while here on earth, although it’s possible they came very close. And if you look honestly, you will see mistakes in the words they have written, but no matter, for those very words are filled with Spirit and with life, the Life Eternal, who came down from heaven above, and even those mistakes will be and have been redeemed and use for the Almighty’s glory.

It’s when we claim to be perfect that we stumble. I don’t think it’s even a desirable thing. We’re heavenly creatures in bodies of dust, and that’s the way we were made to be, in order to turn this whole realm into something greater. Doesn’t mean that we don’t make mistakes in the meantime, but if we weren’t fallible, we would miss the whole point - our goal is at the horizon, right between heaven and earth, and not above or below it.