The Evangelical Universalist Forum

"You must do nothing to come to Jesus" vs "This is what you must do now"


#22

“In my flesh I AM COMPLETING WHAT IS LACKING in Christ’s sufferings for the sake of His Body, the church (Colossians 1:24).”


#23

Absolutely…Though Bob you put it forth in a way that is a bit hard to understand. Who are right with God?


#24

Hmmm Brother we differ in that this is a interesting position listen to this


#25

I just can’t fathom the reasoning in that, but hey, each to his own. I’m comfortable with the reasoning I gave above.


#26

Well, I perceived Davo to hold that everyone is. But I argued that for Jesus such a term for being in right or righteous relationship to God seems better to apply only to those who are repentant and actually seek to live in the righteous way that his own teaching outlines.


#27

Well, first of all I would say did you look at the Presence.TV post I put up? As to Davo’s position, he as well as I think that God has reconciled the world.
Your view of ‘needing repentance’ is an interesting one. But the slippery slope is happening. I see God as working every day through humanity, there is no need for repentance, but there is a need for understanding.


#28

That’s nice. Do you have any evidence that Jesus sees no need for repentance?


#29

[quote=“Hermano, post:30, topic:13933”]l,
But again, one shows God helping by overriding the laws of nature (a “miracle”), the other does not.
[/quote]

Well, that could be refuted… the understanding of how God works is quite crazy…

The repentance and understanding of The Christ’s place was defiantly a part of the time, so if you want to see it as a view of the historical place of Jesus, He had every evidence that the people there and then needed to heed his warning to repent and those that did escaped the coming catastrophe,

So, if we look at the Israelites, the consensus is weather we believe in the actual verbiage, or we believe the things taught to us. I am going with the actual verbiage!


#30

For mine it’s more a case of… humanity en toto has indeed been ‘put to rights with God’ BECAUSE OF His grace given in Christ (you guys know the texts) — and thus such lists of requirements (as above) are really what entails the grasping in practical terms of God’s blessedness in LIFE NOW.


#31

Are you talking about what?


#32

I thought I had replied to your Doug King thing, but I guess I don’t know how reference that in my replies. I’ll be more careful.


#33

MM, I have always appreciated your wisdom and input but I confess to having no idea what you are suggesting here.

From 1 Corinthians 14:

20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. _

21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.

If men (and women) seek understanding, they will only find it in God’s Word which will clearly tell them that He requires them to repent of their sin, sooner (preferable) than later (much less preferable).


#34

Hey Norm, my contention is that if we think that somehow we have it figured out, we are doomed. I look at it from a different standpoint, but I do love God and appreciate your input…


#35

hey, Cool.


#36

Well yeah sure… it’s often useful to change one’s mind (repent) about one’s missteps (sins) to help minimise potential distress — and that’s often the context for Jesus’ appeals to Israel with regards to repentance, i.e., continue down this belligerent road and Rome will run over you; so change your minds… repent! Example Lk 13:3-5.


#37

No, no, no! You need to spiritualize it!


#38

Dang… I get accused of doing that all the time


#39

I wonder how the apostle Paul got it so wrong. He seemed to think that good works are necessary for eternal life, and that the wrath and fury of God will be upon those who live for themselves:

He will render to each one according to his works to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury. There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. For God shows no partiality. ([Romans 2:6-11 ESV)


#40

It would be presumptuous to assume Paul “got it so wrong” when in fact he didn’t at all… to God alone belongs all glory, honour and immortality…

1Tim 1:17 Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, to God who alone is wise, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.

…those who seek after such are seeking after GOD, and thus find fullness of life IN THIS LIFE, i.e., eternal life.


#41

That’s what I say!

I was just offering a bit of sarcasm in order to quite Paul’s words that is clearly opposed to “There’s nothing anyone needs to do since Jesus did it all for us.” Well, yes, Jesus did it all for us, But what exactly did He do?
Through His death He made available God’s enabling grace to which Paul referred in Titus 2—grace to enable us to work righteousness and eschew wrong doing.

For the grace of God has appeared for the salvation of all people, training us to renounce impiety and worldly passions, and to live sensible, righteous, and devout lives in the present age, expecting the blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of the great God and of our Savior Jesus Christ, who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own who are zealous for good works. Declare these things; encourage and reprove with all authority. Let no one disregard you. (Titus 2:11-15)