We can argue, as to whom the audience is - for the sermon on the mount. Perhaps the Jews of Jesus days? Or perhaps a wider audience, to whomever is hearing or reading it? Or maybe some group in-between?
But as a pragmatist, Martin Luther King and Mahatma Ghandi, took the message to heart. And they inspired a movement of peace or peaceful resistance.
Tonight I’m watching the old MacGyver series. Not the CBS contemporary rip off, but the original one. Macgyver is a pragmatic person, who used whatever was available - to construct a solution.
And when Christ spoke, were there only Jews in the audience? Weren’t there also gentles? And if Christ is just speaking to the Jews, wouldn’t the gentiles become totally confused? I certainly would
You may be correct but the fact that Jesus’ teaching were so laced with scripture (Law, prophets and psalms) does indicate that the thrust of his message was at least intended for a certain group of people, those who would know what the references to the spoken scriptures meant. But that is kind of the point, if we take what Christ was saying without allowing for the use of scripture and it’s significance, then we at some point just take the nuggets that we think ‘pertain to us where ever we are in history’. Modern evangelicals will get around this by saying the law was done away with.
Yes there could have been others there, and if they did not know the scriptures Jesus was talking about, they too may have walked away with some real great nuggets of wisdom… But would not have been the intended target.
Now let me share a second answer - from the same thread:
And from the first answer, I found this sentence very interesting:
So the crowds could consist of disciples, potential disciples, hang around folks, gentiles, etc. But they
. In other words, something resonated with them.
A hang around is a term normally given to folks, who hang around with the 1% motorcycle gangs. They are not official members, but they like the group and hang around. And I read that and heard it also - from reliable sources. And hang around is used outside the motorcycle gangs - in Colloquial speech. So it could apply to folks, at the time of Christ.
Mat 5:1 Now, perceiving the throngs, He ascended into the mountain. And, at His being seated, His disciples came to Him.
The Beatitudes
Mat 5:2 And opening His mouth, He taught them [disciples] saying,
He taught the laws of His kingdom to the disciples which they will enforce when Christ sets up His kingdom in Israel and the 12 disciples/apostles will judge the 12 tribes of Israel based on those laws.
The throngs were astonished at His teaching to the 12 disciples. But let’s just assume for the sake of argument that what Jesus said is to the disciples and the throngs. These laws He laid down are an extension of the laws given to Moses. These laws were never meant for the nations to have to do for they never covenanted with God to do them. Only Israel covenanted with God to do the law. Paul, a Jew, said that Christ became a Servant of the Circumcision. Rom 15:8 For I am saying that Christ has become the Servant of the Circumcision, for the sake of the truth of God, to confirm the patriarchal promises."
The idea of scripture as limited to the audience it was originally spoken to is a strange one to me. The word of God is the sword of the Spirit, living and active and sharper than any two edegd sword. Jesus came to the Jews. He came to set them free from the law, and to set them free from themselves. His method for doing that is no different than it is for any Gentile. The cross speaks to all because it is the act that validated all the words that Jesus taught. His teachings are for all who would be His disciples, and the sermon on the mount is about discipleship. Taking His yoke upon us, finding rest for our souls, receiving a meek and lowly heart- from Him.
Jesus came to Nazareth of the Jews, so I agree He was speaking predominantly to Jews, but the truth He was delivering to them was for all- universal light from the source of all creation, speaking through all time until this time and beyond. It was their privilege to receive the gospel first, and He chose His disciples from among them, and sent them with His words into the whole world.
"And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. 11For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. 12And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger. 13And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying,
14Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men."
The shepherds were most likely Jews too, but the message was “I bring you great news for all people”.
There is only one gospel, and it sets all men free from the law. Jesus said, “If you continue in my word you will be my disciples indeed, and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”
Israel was a Lampstand to the world. The law was a lesser light, a first step in “an administration suitable to the fulness of times”. Jesus quoted the law and the prophets to illuminate the law and the prophets. The prophets were given to penetrate the letter of the law and keep bringing Israel back to the heart of the law- revelation of the divine nature. Jesus fulfilled the prophets, and with the advent of Jesus Christ light is running backwards through out the scriptures and illuminating it all- so, every Gentile believer profits from understanding all the word and all of its context- so Paul, who was generally speaking to mixed congregations still quotes from the prophets and speaks about law and grace, love and the divine nature, with a goal of transformation for Jew, Gentile,barbarian, scythian,. slave, free.
Paul did not preach His own gospel. It was Jesus’ gospel. The gospel of God that all the disciples received from Jesus and proclaimed.
[size=150]Mat_5:19 Whosoever, then, should be annulling one of the least of these precepts, and should be teaching men thus, the least in the kingdom of the heavens shall he be called. Yet whoever should be doing and teaching them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of the heavens.[/size] Those precepts were an extension of the precepts of the law.
Rom_2:16 in the day when God will be judging the hidden things of humanity, according to my evangel, through Jesus Christ."
Rom_16:25 Now to Him Who is able to establish you in accord with** my evangel**, and the heralding of Christ Jesus in accord with the revelation of a secret hushed in times eonian,
2Ti_2:8 Remember Jesus Christ, Who has been roused from among the dead, is of the seed of David, according to** my evangel**,
Paul had a distinct ministry from that of the 12. His evangel/gospel is that believers of the nations have a celestial allotment. The evangel of the 12 is that Israel has an earthly allotment.
Paul’s evangel is we are saved by grace, works excluded.
James and the 12 preached a different gospel, that of grace and works.
The Jewish believers from James were infiltrating the Galatian believers of the nations and trying to get them to mix grace with works of law. But Paul said that is a no no and that if anyone brings to them a different gospel/evangel other than what he brought, let them be anathema. Don’t be like those Jews Eaglesway. Don’t be anathema. Read Galatians. There are many more differences between the gospel of the Circumcision and that of Paul. Paul said he was not taught his gospel by any man. It came directly from the risen Christ, not the Christ as He walked in His earthly ministry to Israel. Even Peter had a hard time understanding Paul’s gospel.
Hi qaz, hope your cat is doing well… The idea that* ‘Christians’ agree *is somewhat paradoxical, for there are many ideas of the grace that is told of in the bible. Saving grace, may well be any one (at that time) who heard the Messiah’s message and heeded the warning, back in Jesus’ time **and escaped the fiery stuff to come. (AD 70 destruction of the temple)
Grace could also be seen as a call to the gentiles, (nations) or in other words (as some would say) the ten northern tribes of Israel that God (put away) but wanted to bring back into the fold… grace was their time to com back, obviously through Paul, the apostle to the gentiles (nations), And there is a good argument that most of the time nations is used it means 'lost Israel, or ten northern tribes that God promised (through a covenant) He would bring back into the fold. Just floating this out as a possibility
If the nations are the tribes of Israel, why did Paul say this?:
Gal_2:14 But when I perceived that they are not correct in their attitude toward the truth of the evangel, I said to Cephas in front of all, "If you, being inherently a Jew, are living as the nations, and not as the Jews, how are you compelling the nations to be judaizing?
If Peter was a Jew and the tribes of Israel were Jews, why would Peter try to judaize them when they were already judaized?
Also in Romans Paul said the nations have no law. The Jews had the law of Moses. Why will Israel rule over the nations if Israel is comprised of the nations? Who will rule over the nations outside of Israel during Christ’s reign if Israel is the nations? How will Jesus be King of kings and Lord of lords if the nations are Israel? Will each tribe of Israel have its own king and lord during that time? Just saying.
You will have to respond not using your secret translation, I do not understand evangel, though you may well know what it means. Your Bible translation, and thus your understanding of the gospel message and Paul’s epistle, may well be due to your translation. We will see.
Gal 2:14 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in the presence of all, "If you, being a Jew, live like the Gentiles and not like the Jews, how is it that you compel the Gentiles to live like Jews?
The Idea is that Paul understood that these gentiles were of the fold of the ten northern tribe, or in other words, that which God wanted to bring back because of his promise / covenant.
You have to understand the covenant relationship between God and Israel to understand this.
Well, the nations did not have nor need the law, as the house of Judah was at that time the law keeper so to speak but the dispersion, (divorced Northern tribes of Israel) were originally under Assyrian rule, thus these dispersed Israelites were still ‘under’ the covenant relationship with Yahweh, but they did not have the necessity to keep the law as Judah did, thus they became ‘gentiles’ but through Paul, where brought back into the fold. It is an interesting study as to who the Corinthians, Ephesians, and other ‘Gentile’ Churches were. Most all could be traces to the dispersed Israelites. That is not to say there were not others there, but there is evidence, both historical and from Paul’s letters that he was speaking to kinsman.
He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His (kind intention-eudokia NAS) which He purposed in Him with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, Eph 1,NAS
Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself (same verse KJV)
making known to us the secret of His will (in accord with His delight, which He purposed in Him) (same verse Concordant)
And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, **(I bring you good news-euaggelizomai-εὐαγγελίζομαι)**of great joy, which shall be to all people. 11For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. 12And this shall be a sign unto you; You shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger. 13And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying, “Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, **good will(eudokias) **toward men.” Luke 2
Brethren, my heart’s desire(kind intention/good will-eudokia) and my prayer to God for them is for their salvation. Romans 10:1
The good/kind news of God’s good/kind intention to all people
Hi maintenanceman, if the translation is a “secret translation” it is only because we don’t do a lot of advertising for it but merely word of mouth. It’s been out since the early 1900’s. It has been sold all over the world.
Paidion said it well concerning “evangel.” It is comprised of “eu” “good or well” and “a[n]gegelion” message. “Evangelist” is derived from this as one who brings a good or well message.
But they weren’t Jews. They were the nations. They lived outside of Israel. Some Israelites were coming into their “churches” in Galatia from James and trying to bring them under law. If they were Israelites, why would Paul, a Jew, tell them they shouldn’t be trying to live under law? That if they live under the law, they fall out of grace? No, they were the nations who have nothing to do with living under the law. Do you see the rationale in this?
You have to understand the difference between the nations under grace and the Jews under law to understand this.
