1 John 4:20


#1

In this verse, John is pointing out that anyone who claims to love God but hates their neighbor are liars since they have never seen God. I wanted to ask your thoughts on this verse in a EU context. What exactly does John mean by hate here??? Since Jesus said we are to love our enemies does this then mean we cannot hate anyone??? I mean this in the form of rejection anyone for not being a christian. This goes with the whole idea of hell. If people end up in hell, how does that mesh with this verse??? Does God and Jesus call us to do something They fail to do by eternally judging Their enemies so to speak and not forgiving and loving them??? There is a lot in here intertwining love, justice,judgment and forgiveness. Look forward to your responses :sunglasses:

Robert


#2

Well, here is the “Calvinism in Disguise” Got Questions commentary - on biblical hate:

What does the Bible say about hate?


#3

Randy, why do you call that website “Calvinism in disguise”?


#4

Thomas Aquinas taught us to love the sinner and hate the sin. Indeed Romans says:

According to Ed Welch when we want to grow in self-control not only do we nurture an exuberance for Jesus Christ, we also demand of ourselves a hatred of sin. After graduating from seminary in 1978, Ed went on to study at the University of Utah in Salt Lake City, where he received a Ph.D. in Counseling Psychology (Neuropsychology). We are to love people. We love our enemies by having faith in God:

In this way I will be loving the way Jesus did while He was on earth:

Paul is telling us that personal vengeance belongs to God. There are ways we are to be like God and ways we are not. My faith is in God to handle my accounts. When I let go and let God handle my accounts I am free to forgive. God shows mercy on the just and the unjust. But when it comes to hell His mercy is over. What God is doing by keeping evil out of the new creation is protecting His children from evil’s harm. In this He is glorified in showing His tender love to His children. Hell demonstrates God’s perfect love and perfect justice. The Bible tells us that God is light and in Him there is no darkness at all. Darkness is corruption and evil. So, light refers to God’s beautiful holiness. God is light tells us that holiness is God’s essence. It’s who He is. So, while God is love it’s a holy love. His justice is a holy justice. That is to say, God’s love and justice are perfect. Of course we don’t live in the state of perfect love and justice at the moment. For creation was subjected to futility and corruption by God in hope. But when God reconciles the present heaven and earth there will be a new creation as God’s children enter into the state of perfect love and perfect justice. Moreover, It’s the nature of perfect love and perfect justice to protect against evils harm. So, when we enter into the state of perfect love and perfect justice we will be protected from evil forever and ever. Of course God is across time and has always been in a state of perfect love and perfect justice. He’s the beginning and the end. All past, present, and future events are “present” to God in His “now”.


#5

Because Got Questions ** officially** presents themselves as non-denominational. But as STT and some Christian blog posters point out, they are really promoting Calvinism as favorable. Or they really answer Biblical questions, as a Calvinist would.

or

youtube.com/watch?v=Oj3VphK9AMk


#6

True, there is not a Greek word in the text for “himself,” but don’t you think it is justified to insert the word in a translation?
When it is omitted, it doesn’t make sense in English, for WHAT did he continue entrusting or delivering or committing to God? There must be SOMETHING!

The majority of translations insert “himself.” However Philips and Murdoch have “committed his cause.” Williams had “committed his case.”
WNT has “delivered all into the keeping.” The only translation of which I am aware that does not add ANY word, is the RSV. It simply has, “he trusted to him who judges justly.” But again WHAT did he trust or entrust to him who judges justly? It cannot be translated “trusted IN the one” for the Greek word “the” that follows is in the dative case. It has to be “to.”


#7

The passage is saying that Christ trusted in the Father’s judgment. He left the decision in the hands of God for when he was reviled, he did not revile in return; when he suffered, he did not threaten. This makes sense for Paul tells us in Romans:

This is taken from the OT

as it is written, The just shall live by faith. ~~ Roman’s 1:17


#8

Paidion,

He left the decision of judgment to God. He entrusted to Him who judges justly. He left room for God’s wrath for vengeance belongs to God. He had confidence in God’s judgment.


#9

I explained in my previous post that the grammar does not permit this, and why.


#10

Paidion,

That’s why I restated it this way:

He left the decision of judgment to God. He entrusted to Him who judges justly. He left room for God’s wrath for vengeance belongs to God. He had confidence in God’s judgment.

If anybody is interested I got my idea of hell from “The Case For Faith” where the philosopher Dr. J.P. Moreland shows hell to be a quarantine. I did use my own words of perfect love and perfect justice from the Bible though and how God is a protector when we are under His wings. It’s all through the Bible and J.P. Moreland’s philosophical defense has been around for quite some time.

I’m out!


#11

It’s also in my Ignatius Catholic Study Bible in the note on Rev. 22:15


#12

I thought you left.


#13

Just had to make that clear in case anyone was wondering where it came from. I didn’t dream it up.

I’m out!


#14

Michael, when you said “I’m out” I thought you were referring to that other thread on hell.
You’re sticking around on these other threads, though, right?


#15

No, I’ll drop in and read some but I don’t have anything else to say. I’ll still read though.


#16

One last thing. When we enter into the state of perfect love in perfect heaven we are completely delivered. God protects us under His wings forever and ever. In the perfect creation there is perfect love and perfect justice. We are made perfect in love and perfect love casts out fear.

2Timothy 4:18 The Lord will rescue me from every evil deed and bring me safely into his heavenly kingdom. To him be the glory forever and ever. Amen.

2 Thessalonians 3:3 But the Lord is faithful. He will establish you and guard you against the evil one.

Daniel 12:1 “At that time shall arise Michael, the great prince who has charge of your people. And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never has been since there was a nation till that time. But at that time your people shall be delivered, everyone whose name shall be found written in the book.

Psalm 91:1-3 He who dwells in the shelter of the Most High will abide in the shadow of the Almighty. I will say to the LORD, “My refuge and my fortress, my God, in whom I trust.” For he will deliver you from the snare of the fowler and from the deadly pestilence.

2Samuel 22:3-4 my God, my rock, in whom I take refuge, my shield, and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold and my refuge, my savior; you save me from violence. I call upon the LORD, who is worthy to be praised, and I am saved from my enemies.

Psalms 91 You who live in the shelter of the Most High, who spend your nights in the shadow of the Almighty, who say to the LORD, “My refuge! My fortress! My God, in whom I trust!” – He will rescue you from the trap of the hunter, and from the plague of disease. He will cover you with His pinions, and under His wings you will find refuge; His truth is a shield and a protection.


#17

Bye (for the third time)


#18

See ya qaz! Hang in there!


#19

qaz,

I need to add that this view of hell isn’t a torture chamber. Those who have their hearts separated from God’s mercy have hardened hearts. As a result the longer in hell the more evil and God hating they become. It also follows that because their hearts get harder over time the less and less aware they will be of how terrible their condition is in hell. For those in eternal bliss the condition is indeed terrible. But not for those in hell. There is misery but it’s like the creature Gollum in the movie “The Lord of the Rings”. The longer he has the ring the more corrupt he becomes and the harder it is to let go of the ring. But there is no torture there. In other words the wicked become accustomed and use to the living conditions in hell. But they do gnash their teeth in anger at God and His children at times. Those in heaven are angels. Those in hell are devils.

Take care!


#20

That’s basically a copy/paste of unscriptural dogmatic statements you’ve made elsewhere.