1 John 4:20

[Robert]

In this verse, John is pointing out that anyone who claims to love God but hates their neighbor are liars since they have never seen God. I wanted to ask your thoughts on this verse in a EU context. What exactly does John mean by hate here??? Since Jesus said we are to love our enemies does this then mean we cannot hate anyone??? I mean this in the form of rejection anyone for not being a christian. This goes with the whole idea of hell. If people end up in hell, how does that mesh with this verse??? Does God and Jesus call us to do something They fail to do by eternally judging Their enemies so to speak and not forgiving and loving them??? There is a lot in here intertwining love, justice,judgment and forgiveness. Look forward to your responses

Robert

[Holy-Fool-P-Zombie]

Well, here is the “Calvinism in Disguise” Got Questions commentary - on biblical hate:

What does the Bible say about hate?

Question: “What does the Bible say about hate?”

Answer: Biblically speaking, there are positive and negative aspects to hatred. It is acceptable to hate those things that God hates; indeed, this is very much a proof of a right standing with God. “Let those who love the Lord hate evil” (Psalm 97:10a). Indeed, the closer our walk with the Lord and the more we fellowship with Him, the more conscious we will be of sin, both within and without. Do we not grieve and burn with anger when God’s name is maligned, when we see spiritual hypocrisy, when we see blatant unbelief and godless behavior? The more we understand God’s attributes and love His character, the more we will be like Him and the more we will hate those things that are contrary to His Word and nature.

However, the hatred that is negative surely has to be that which is directed against others. The Lord mentions hatred in the Sermon on the Mount: “But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment” (Matthew 5:22). The Lord commands that not only should we be reconciled with our brother before we go before the Lord, but also that we do it quickly (Matthew 5:23-26). The act of murder itself was certainly condemned, but hatred is a “heart” sin, and any hateful thought or act is an act of murder in God’s eyes for which justice will be demanded, possibly not in this life but at the judgment. So heinous is the position of hate before God that a man who hates is said to be walking in darkness, as opposed to the light (1 John 2:9, 11). The worst situation is that of a man who continues professing religion but remains at enmity with his brother. The Scriptures declare that such a person is a liar (1 John 4:20), and he may fool men, but not God. How many believers live for years pretending that all is well, putting on a front, only to be found finally wanting because they have harbored enmity (hatred) against a fellow believer?

Hatred is a poison that destroys us from within, producing bitterness that eats away at our hearts and minds. This is why the Scriptures tell us not to let a “root of bitterness” spring up in our hearts (Hebrews 12:15). Hatred also destroys the personal witness of a Christian because it removes him from fellowship with the Lord and other believers. Let us be careful to do as the Lord advised and keep short accounts with everyone about everything, no matter how small, and the Lord will be faithful to forgive, as He has promised (1 John 1:9; 2:1).

[St_Michael]

Thomas Aquinas taught us to love the sinner and hate the sin. Indeed Romans says:

Let love be genuine. Abhor what is evil; hold fast to what is good.

According to Ed Welch when we want to grow in self-control not only do we nurture an exuberance for Jesus Christ, we also demand of ourselves a hatred of sin. After graduating from seminary in 1978, Ed went on to study at the University of Utah in Salt Lake City, where he received a Ph.D. in Counseling Psychology (Neuropsychology). We are to love people. We love our enemies by having faith in God:

Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.” To the contrary, “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink - Romans 12:19

In this way I will be loving the way Jesus did while He was on earth:

When he was reviled, he did not revile in return; when he suffered, he did not threaten, but continued entrusting to him who judges justly. - 1 Peter 2:23 (the word himself isn’t in the original)

Paul is telling us that personal vengeance belongs to God. There are ways we are to be like God and ways we are not. My faith is in God to handle my accounts. When I let go and let God handle my accounts I am free to forgive. God shows mercy on the just and the unjust. But when it comes to hell His mercy is over. What God is doing by keeping evil out of the new creation is protecting His children from evil’s harm. In this He is glorified in showing His tender love to His children. Hell demonstrates God’s perfect love and perfect justice. The Bible tells us that God is light and in Him there is no darkness at all. Darkness is corruption and evil. So, light refers to God’s beautiful holiness. God is light tells us that holiness is God’s essence. It’s who He is. So, while God is love it’s a holy love. His justice is a holy justice. That is to say, God’s love and justice are perfect. Of course we don’t live in the state of perfect love and justice at the moment. For creation was subjected to futility and corruption by God in hope. But when God reconciles the present heaven and earth there will be a new creation as God’s children enter into the state of perfect love and perfect justice. Moreover, It’s the nature of perfect love and perfect justice to protect against evils harm. So, when we enter into the state of perfect love and perfect justice we will be protected from evil forever and ever. Of course God is across time and has always been in a state of perfect love and perfect justice. He’s the beginning and the end. All past, present, and future events are “present” to God in His “now”.

[Holy-Fool-P-Zombie]

Randy, why do you call that website “Calvinism in disguise”?

Because Got Questions ** officially** presents themselves as non-denominational. But as STT and some Christian blog posters point out, they are really promoting Calvinism as favorable. Or they really answer Biblical questions, as a Calvinist would.

or

youtube.com/watch?v=Oj3VphK9AMk

[Paidion]

When he was reviled, he did not revile in return; when he suffered, he did not threaten, but continued entrusting to him who judges justly. - 1 Peter 2:23 (the word himself isn’t in the original)

True, there is not a Greek word in the text for “himself,” but don’t you think it is justified to insert the word in a translation?
When it is omitted, it doesn’t make sense in English, for WHAT did he continue entrusting or delivering or committing to God? There must be SOMETHING!

The majority of translations insert “himself.” However Philips and Murdoch have “committed his cause.” Williams had “committed his case.”
WNT has “delivered all into the keeping.” The only translation of which I am aware that does not add ANY word, is the RSV. It simply has, “he trusted to him who judges justly.” But again WHAT did he trust or entrust to him who judges justly? It cannot be translated “trusted IN the one” for the Greek word “the” that follows is in the dative case. It has to be “to.”

[St_Michael]

The passage is saying that Christ trusted in the Father’s judgment. He left the decision in the hands of God for when he was reviled, he did not revile in return; when he suffered, he did not threaten. This makes sense for Paul tells us in Romans:

Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.”

This is taken from the OT

'You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the sons of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself; I am the LORD. ~~ Lev. 19:18

‘Vengeance is Mine, and retribution, In due time their foot will slip; For the day of their calamity is near, And the impending things are hastening upon them.’ ~~ Duet. 32:35

as it is written, The just shall live by faith. ~~ Roman’s 1:17

[St_Michael]

Paidion,

He left the decision of judgment to God. He entrusted to Him who judges justly. He left room for God’s wrath for vengeance belongs to God. He had confidence in God’s judgment.

[Paidion]

The passage is saying that Christ trusted in the Father’s judgment.

I explained in my previous post that the grammar does not permit this, and why.

[St_Michael]

Paidion,

That’s why I restated it this way:

He left the decision of judgment to God. He entrusted to Him who judges justly. He left room for God’s wrath for vengeance belongs to God. He had confidence in God’s judgment.

If anybody is interested I got my idea of hell from “The Case For Faith” where the philosopher Dr. J.P. Moreland shows hell to be a quarantine. I did use my own words of perfect love and perfect justice from the Bible though and how God is a protector when we are under His wings. It’s all through the Bible and J.P. Moreland’s philosophical defense has been around for quite some time.

I’m out!

[St_Michael]

It’s also in my Ignatius Catholic Study Bible in the note on Rev. 22:15

The heavenly city is protected from sinful contamination, with evildoers kept far outside it’s walls.

[St_Michael]

Just had to make that clear in case anyone was wondering where it came from. I didn’t dream it up.

I’m out!

[anon12438761]

Michael, when you said “I’m out” I thought you were referring to that other thread on hell.
You’re sticking around on these other threads, though, right?

[St_Michael]

No, I’ll drop in and read some but I don’t have anything else to say. I’ll still read though.

[St_Michael]

One last thing. When we enter into the state of perfect love in perfect heaven we are completely delivered. God protects us under His wings forever and ever. In the perfect creation there is perfect love and perfect justice. We are made perfect in love and perfect love casts out fear.

2Timothy 4:18 The Lord will rescue me from every evil deed and bring me safely into his heavenly kingdom. To him be the glory forever and ever. Amen.

2 Thessalonians 3:3 But the Lord is faithful. He will establish you and guard you against the evil one.

Daniel 12:1 “At that time shall arise Michael, the great prince who has charge of your people. And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never has been since there was a nation till that time. But at that time your people shall be delivered, everyone whose name shall be found written in the book.

Psalm 91:1-3 He who dwells in the shelter of the Most High will abide in the shadow of the Almighty. I will say to the LORD, “My refuge and my fortress, my God, in whom I trust.” For he will deliver you from the snare of the fowler and from the deadly pestilence.

2Samuel 22:3-4 my God, my rock, in whom I take refuge, my shield, and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold and my refuge, my savior; you save me from violence. I call upon the LORD, who is worthy to be praised, and I am saved from my enemies.

Psalms 91 You who live in the shelter of the Most High, who spend your nights in the shadow of the Almighty, who say to the LORD, “My refuge! My fortress! My God, in whom I trust!” – He will rescue you from the trap of the hunter, and from the plague of disease. He will cover you with His pinions, and under His wings you will find refuge; His truth is a shield and a protection.

[St_Michael]

See ya qaz! Hang in there!

[St_Michael]

qaz,

I need to add that this view of hell isn’t a torture chamber. Those who have their hearts separated from God’s mercy have hardened hearts. As a result the longer in hell the more evil and God hating they become. It also follows that because their hearts get harder over time the less and less aware they will be of how terrible their condition is in hell. For those in eternal bliss the condition is indeed terrible. But not for those in hell. There is misery but it’s like the creature Gollum in the movie “The Lord of the Rings”. The longer he has the ring the more corrupt he becomes and the harder it is to let go of the ring. But there is no torture there. In other words the wicked become accustomed and use to the living conditions in hell. But they do gnash their teeth in anger at God and His children at times. Those in heaven are angels. Those in hell are devils.

Take care!

[St_Michael]

No it’s not. I wrote that by hand and memory. It comes from the philosopher C. Steven Evans. No copy and paste though.

[Holy-Fool-P-Zombie]

No it’s not. I wrote that by hand and memory. It comes from the philosopher C. Steven Evans. No copy and paste though.

The proper protocol is to put any citations in quotes and add the author’s name and web link. Paraphrasing is considered plagiarism. Just an observation.

[St_Michael]

I got the idea from him. I wrote it from my memory. No paraphrase or copying.

[St_Michael]

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41EnGceSjCL.SY344_BO1,204,203,200.jpg

Philosophy of Religion: Thinking about Faith by C. Stephen Evans & R Zachary Manis