The Evangelical Universalist Forum

2nd Thoughts On ChristianPUR (Purgatorial Universal Restoration)

Well,Cindy. If you simply accept the visions, of the folks seeing the Zombie Apocalypse during the tribulation…and watch more episodes, of AMC’s The Walking Dead and Fear The Walking Dead…then you can buy into this… as the most probable, end-times model. And not worry about beasts with multiple heads, etc. It makes life so much simpler. :rofl:

Perhaps John was seeing Zombies…and needed to use symbolic language, to describe them? Perhaps a bit of “scholarship” here?

Are those two witnesses in Revelation zombies (Rev. 11:1-13)?

Astute Bible students know what I’m talking about. In the middle of a vision Jesus gave to John on the island of Patmos, God revealed that two witnesses will have the power and authority to “prophesy” for over a thousand days. Like John the Baptist, they wear sackcloth; like Moses they usher plagues and peril.

The beast, ever the enemy of God’s people in the vision, wars against the witnesses and kills them. From there, the vision unfolds like a western. The witnesses remain dead in the streets of Jerusalem for three and one-half days. No one honors them with a proper burial; and, after a time, God breathes new life into them. They raise from the dead at the amazement of onlookers.

That sounds like a zombie apocalypse to me, but unlike the lifeless drones that haunt Atlanta in the fictitious world Walking Dead, these two witnesses bear testimony to the power of God.

Zombies might even come knocking…and save you the trouble, of looking for them. :rofl:

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I find your view of a Zombie Apocalypse a possibility and I do not discount it.

I do not believe that any single person, theologian, or Church has a completely accurate interpretation of scripture. And I do believe that the Holy Spirit does guide man, even today. But, as humans, we are subject to error, and no human, theologian, or Church is perfect.

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Excellent. We do share something in common. Now we just need to get other folks - on board here.

I think we can get “close enough, for all practical purposes”. Let’s illustrate this with a joke from Comprehending Engineers-Take Two

In the high school gym, all the girls in the class were lined up against one wall, and all the boys against the opposite wall.

Then, every ten seconds, they walked toward each other until they were half the previous distance apart.

A mathematician, a physicist, and an engineer were asked, “When will the girls and boys meet?”

The mathematician said: “Never.”

The physicist said: “In an infinite amount of time.”

The engineer said: “Well… in about two minutes, they’ll be close enough for all practical purposes.”

But let me share a Calvinist perspective…from the site Got Questions:

Finally…while I primarily lean to Eastern Orthodoxy - for theological guidance…I do like the Roman Catholic, Franciscan contemplative messages - of Father Richard Rohr. There’s an article and exchange, in today’s Patheos Catholic Newsletter. I also subscribe to their evangelical newsletter.

I look at 2 things and bring them back into an Anglican framework:

  • I look to Francisian contemplation, as found in Richard Rorh’s Contemplation. Which I like to primary focus, in the Christian silent adaptations of Mindfulness, Fox Golden Key, Yoga; Zen,

  • I follow the Eastern Orthodoxy model of theology…which hasn’t changed much, since the time of Christ. And I follow their distinction, of God’s essence and energies. And I believe anyone - Christian or non-Christian - can tap into God’s energies for healing. The Native American medicine men and women…and the Chinese…have been doing it for centuries. And I hang around groups that don’t charge - for energy healing. See What Everyone Should Know About Energy Healing and Christian Reiki - for example. But I ONLY endorse those… that don’t charge…, do it as a service… and the group is God centric. And it’s only a compliment, to traditional medical service. And Christians can tap into the energies for Theosis. For a deeper discussion, from a Native American perspective. See medicine man Russel Four Eagles on YouTube at The Making of a Healer - Teachings of My Oneida Grandmother and Native American Healing Tradition

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Mesmerizing, childlike interpolations in your writings possess an ode of submission to the healing of God’s energies by both natural and supernatural means, dearest Zombie! Keep them coming like the modestly sweet vanilla ice cream which flows out of an ice cream machine into a sugar (or simple waffle cup) cone to encourage the innocent, helpless yielding and trust of men and women towards the ineffable Divine! Thank you, again :slight_smile: @Holy-Fool-P-Zombie

Still patiently waiting with baited breath for Elder @JasonPratt’s stamp of approval, or dialogic commentary, at least? <3 :purple_heart: :persevere: lol

You say things I agree with, but let me point out some disagreements.

Spirits/souls are not immortal? So are you an annihilationist, or not? I believe everyone will eventually come to repentance and salvation, including demons: everyone is predestined for life. The remedial lake of fire has the devil and his angels in mind (Mt. 25:41); and we recall that it was a snake on a pole (Num. 21:9, John 3:14) that foreshadowed the wideness of the scope of Christ’s work on the cross—his redemptive work covering even the very first sinner.

Pre-Adamic deluge? I don’t believe in Darwinian macroevolution over innumerable eons, with eventual hominids leading up to the sentient being, “Adam”–by the mechanisms of death and “survival of the fittest.” Death came in through the man Adam (Rom. 5:12, 1 Cor. 15:21), not before him. And note: Satan has the power of death, not God (Hebrews 2:14). Death is an enemy, not an instrument, of God, which will be destroyed (1 Cor. 15:26)–death is put to death, disappearing in the lake of fire, “the second death” (Rev. 20:14). All mortality will be swallowed up by life (2 Cor. 5:4).

So I don’t believe there were any pre-Adamic races. I believe Adam was the first human, his body supernaturally created out of dirt, and from his side, his wife Eve became “the mother of all living” (Gen. 3:20), during Creation week–when everything that has (thus far) been created (including plant-life, animal life, angels, and humans) came into existence–and it was all good (Gen. 1:31).

While I too believe in postmortem judgment and correction, I make a sharp distinction between Hades/Gehenna/hell (to be avoided at all costs, e.g. Mt. 5:30) and the subsequent remedial lake of fire, into which hell and death will one day be cast (Rev. 20:14).

I don’t believe God sends evil, or that Satan was, is, or ever will be, his servant. Please consider this essay (for me, the most important I have ever read),

SATAN: Old Testament Servant Angel or New Testament Cosmic Rebel?

  1. I am not at all convinced by Matthew 18:34 that demons are the jailers of hell, perpetrating torture on humans—although I do think that people who die in their sins continue as POWs of Satan and sin in death, just as they were in life.

  2. Again, I think you are wrongly conflating the Luke 16 hell/Hades/Gehenna with the later, healing, restorative Revelation 20 lake of fire. (But as you said, you “essentially believe in a compromising synthesis of the purple and yellow” in the “Christian Views of Final Punishment” chart you linked to.)

Blessings.