The Evangelical Universalist Forum

A Christian Response To North Korea

#41

I think they are talking about the immigrant Martian refugees, coming to the Planet Vulcan :exclamation: :laughing:

And speaking of Spock. I thought about online and distance learning programs. In 1858, the University of London…pioneered distance learning programs, all the way to the PhD. You would think that, by the time Mr. Spock and Mr. Data were around,…that Star Fleet Academy, would have distance and online learning programs. And we would be saying Dr. Spock and Dr. Data. :laughing:

And this interesting article, came from the Protestant site Pathaos today:

How to Disprove Any Christian in 10 Easy Steps

Notice a rule of marketing here. If you have an “eye catching headline”, it will prompt folks to read farther. :laughing:

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#42

-Are Kim Jong-un and Donald Trump morally equivalent? :exclamation:
-And what about a Christian’s authority in spiritual warfare?
:question:

From a Fox News story today, North Korea: How Christians survive in the world’s most anti-Christian nation:

Blessings.

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#43

Regarding pastor Robert Jeffress, "Trump’s evangelical adviser: God’s OK with U.S. bombing North Korea,” Tim Swarens, the opinion editor of The Indianapolis Star, writes,

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#44

Today North Korea fired an unidentified missile into the Sea of Japan, South Korean media said.

South Korea’s military said the missile was fired from Pyongyang and that it passed over Japan.

“The Pentagon is investigating.”

From Fox News today.

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#45

From [size=110]Putin[/size]: U.S. and North Korea Are ‘Balanced on the Verge of a Large-Scale Conflict’:

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#46

From today at CNN, Trump says appeasement ‘will not work’ after NK nuclear test:

From today at Fox, Trump hints at ending US trade with all North Korea partners, after Mnuchin vows more sanctions:

From 2010 at CBN, North Korea Spiritual Warfare: Insights from Carl Moeller:

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#47

Regarding possible war with North Korea, could it be justified morally? Who judges what is moral?

Is morality even the right focal point for Christians? Or should it be knowing Jesus more intimately?

I would suggest that one of the two trees in the Garden—the forbidden Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil—could have been called “The Morality Tree.” And the other—The Tree of Life—could have been called “The Jesus Tree.”

I would further suggest that The Morality Tree would include a fruit called the “Just War Theory,” and The Jesus Tree would include a fruit known as “Spiritual Warfare.”

Just war theory (Latin: jus bellum iustum) is a doctrine, also referred to as a tradition, of military ethics studied by theologians, ethicists, policy makers, and military leaders. The purpose of the doctrine is to ensure war is morally justifiable through a series of criteria, all of which must be met for a war to be considered just.

vs.

Spiritual warfare is the Christian concept of taking a stand against preternatural evil forces. It is based on the belief in evil spirits which are able to intervene in human affairs. Various Christian groups have adopted practices to repel such forces, as based on their doctrine of Christian demonology….Christian practices of spiritual warfare vary throughout Christianity.

Foundational to a correct understanding and practice of spiritual warfare, I offer you a refutation of the primacy of morality (from Richard Murray’s book, God vs. Evil):

From the foregoing, allow me to offer another, possibly more accurate, name for the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil:

[size=120]The Tree of Greater and Lesser Evil.[/size]

After all, it was a forbidden tree. So how could it offer anything genuinely “good”?

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#48

I"ll pass over the serious understatement of the effects of that EMP (below) - it would be much worse - and say that this Christian’s response (mine) to North Korea’s ability is - scared.

“the regime appears to be closer than ever to presenting a credible nuclear threat to the United States mainland. It still has one problem to solve in order to successfully launch direct nuclear strikes on U.S. cities - missile re-entry into the atmosphere. However, without even bothering about re-entry, North Korea may already have the capability today to detonate a nuclear bomb in the upper atmosphere, generating an electromagnetic pulse (EMP) that could virtually destroy the US.'s electrical grid and communications systems. An EMP attack would affect transportation as well as critical food, water and medical supplies. Millions of people could die as a result. North Korea has in fact threatened just such an attack.”

I’m aware of the arguments re: responses to North Korea. I"m aware of the teaching of Providence. Still, there is a visceral response that I cannot ignore - to take care of family and friends, preserve the local community, preserve the culture at any cost. I’m not saying that our visceral responses should dictate national policy ; but to act in a self-preservation mode against an aggressor is a natural response and I feel it acutely.
I’m not making an argument - just a statement.

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#49

but to act in a self-preservation mode against an aggressor is a natural response and I feel it acutely.
I’m not making an argument - just a statement.

I agree since it appears NK is headed toward becoming an imminent threat to the USA and Kim appears to be truly insane. NK seems to be daring us to attack it, truly strange and tragic situation. A secular leader of this country has an obligation to protect it’s residents.China could bring NK to it’s knees by cutting off oil shipments but so far they won’t do it.

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#50

Are good things never forbiddenl? Is it not a good thing for a young person to learn to drive a car? But a good father may forbid his 9-year old son from doing so. It is necessary for the child to mature first.

I see the same thing with the tree of knowledge of good and evil. It is a good thing to be able to distinguish good from evil.

Hebrews 5:14 But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil.

Why did God place the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the garden? Did he want to tempt Adam and Eve with evil? I don’t think so. They were newly created. I think He wanted them first to mature—perhaps to eat first from the tree of life (He never forbade them from eating from that tree.)
After maturity, they would be ready to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. But Satan tempted them to do things in reverse. Satan often give a twist to God’s commands in a way that they will not be properly carried out.

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#51

Well, if:

You don’t want war with North Korea
And you don’t want a diplomatic solution, by having Dennis Rodman - as US ambassador to North Korea

Why not pay someone, to take him out? And “take him out”, doesn’t mean - to invite him for lunch :exclamation: Or perhaps the CIA, is already trying - to implement that plan :exclamation: :laughing:

Here’s what the CIA had to say, when asked about this. :laughing:

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#52

My contacts in the Deep State are being mum also…

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#53

From Putin warns of planetary catastrophe:

Peaceful dialogue? No further sanctions?

**What, then? Sanctions against China? Try to force China into submission about their vital role in bringing North Korea into submission? **

Well, perhaps sanctions on China next…might be better than war with NK next; yet many insist that the longer Trump delays taking a military solution, the more dangerous North Korea is allowed to become. For example, an argument for urgent military action goes: “perhaps NK is not capable of an EMP strike against the USA today, but next month, or next year, they will be.”

As to assassinating the primary leader of NK: would that avert war? Is it even “surgically” feasible?

This crisis is a conundrum for “armchair generals” everywhere.

But, questions:

-Does God know what needs to happen in order to avert war, and even to peacefully reunite the two Koreas?

-Is God willing and able to communicate clearly with people about such information?

-If so, do we have the willingness and spiritual ability to hear Him?

Again, I would argue the real battle is against demonic powers in heavenly places; that God is nonviolent; and that the solution is spiritual: that is, the divine keys must be received, and exercised, through prayer.

Shalom!

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#54

Hermano asked: “So, what can we Christians do to improve the situation?”

1 exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;

2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.

3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

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#55

Are all called to be intercessors?

1 Cor.12:29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? 30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

4Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. 7But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 8For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 11But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

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#56

From Fox News today, North Korea says strike on US is ‘inevitable’ as Pentagon flies bombers off coast:

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#57

We made a big mistake with Iran imo; Obama had no clue how to deal with strong Iranian leadership, and Hilary was too busy selling a large percentage of our Uranium rights to Russia. Gosh, wonder where that money went? :imp:

As we ‘negotiated’ with the Iranians, they continued building up their arsenal. Of course they did: they recognized the stupidity of American ‘leadership’ and simply took advantage of it.

The NK’s learned from that - so did everyone else - and, I suppose, would be happy to negotiate till the end of time or until they had built enough H-bombs to do some real damage. But Trump is not Obama or Hilary; he is tougher and just as smart, and I for one am not afraid that he is trigger-happy, though the Aussie newspapers relish calling him that.

I’m very happy not to have Trump’s job. If we wait for NK to do something really damaging before we take action, then we will be accused of waiting too long. If we make a first, surgical strike to eliminate their launch abilities, we will be accused of starting a war.

If Trump can continue to press China toward blockades and embargos, maybe the world does have a chance of avoiding an NK disaster; then we can deal with Iran?

Looks a little bleak to me.

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#58

We made a big mistake with Iran imo; Obama had no clue how to deal with strong Iranian leadership,

Or maybe Obama did know what he was doing? :smiling_imp:

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#59

Well, at least with the Nuclear deal - he didn’t act alone. You have others to blame, if you don’t like the deal:(From Wiki)

I’m sure all this “right wing” blaming the '“left wing” - and vice versa…Will be what triggers the zombie apocalypse (see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zombie_apocalypse) :astonished: :open_mouth: :cry: :angry:

Perhaps this can all be avoided, by this story I’ve shared on Twitter today.

Three Simple Questions This GE Exec Asks To Solve Big, Complex Problems

Here are the questions the article asks:

And the zombie apocalypse would be much worse than anything North Korea, ISIS or Iran - could throw our way. Just watch programs like Fear the Walking Dead (on tonight on AMC), The Walking Dead or Z Nation - for previews of our world to come. Or even the current Stephen King movie It. :astonished: :open_mouth:

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#60

Hermano , the Bible says this:
Jer. 23:17 “They keep saying to those that despise Me, ‘The Lord has said you will have peace’; and as for everyone who walks in the stubbornness of his own heart, they say ‘Calamity will not come upon you’.”
Jer.14:13 “The(false) prophets are telling them, ‘You will not see the sword nor will you have famine but I will give you lasting peace in this place’.”
Jer. 8:11 “They heal the brokenness of the daughter of My people superficially, saying peace, peace, but there is no peace.”
Hosea 9:7 “The days of punishment have come, the days of retribution have come; let Israel know this. The inspired man is demented, because of the grossness of your iniquity and because your hostility is so great.”
Ez. 7:25 “When anguish comes, they will seek peace, but there will be none.”
1 Thess. 5:3 “While people are saying peace and security, destruction will come upon them suddenly like labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.”

No one wants war, but sometimes it is unavoidable. I don’t think we can talk peace with a man who is on a power trip and bent on destruction.

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