The Evangelical Universalist Forum

A NDE that bothers me, Please check it out

Hi guys, hope its okay to post youtube vids and I hope i am posting in the right forum.
I have one here that bothers me. As a favor for me could you guys take a look at this one? It’s only 17 minutes long. Normally i ignore all NDE’s because most, if not all of them i believe are satanic and are visions from satan. But this one here, she sounds super sincere and she wrote a book. I know i know, they all do that and seem “sincere”… but please check her out and see what you make of it. Her name is Tamara Laroux and she is on the 700 club.

youtube.com/watch?v=HGQDkCi-OIY

She speaks of being in hell and looking across a fiery pit and seeing hundreds of souls screaming in agony. Each soul was a formless being begging for another chance but not going to receive it. :blush: :cry:

That of course goes totally against universalism…but like i said, please check her out and tell me what you think.

Thank you.

Another video of her…

dtrtministries.com/2011/02/21/ta … his-world/

There is something about her that seems like…an actress. She’s a little too well spoken, a little too educated sounding if you know what i mean…not to mention, beautiful. Perhaps she is no different then any other so-called NDE’er that wants to make money off of their experience. Plus it was on the 700 club, I’ve heard bad things about that show…so idk…

You gotta watch out for those sincere, pretty and well-spoken ones…

I’m not at all familiar with these sort of things [edit: having an NDE and then writing a book about it] (-- is this common elsewhere in the world?) but I would tend to shrug it off as the spasms of a dying mind. I’m not opposed to “mysticism”, but it must be tested according to existing revelation. I think to be fair to rationalist rigor, we would also have to know her background and psychological condition.

If this woman truly was in hell, how did she manage to escape? :wink:

Jesus came to seek and save the lost (though it cost him his life), and what he wants to do, he does. Of all the gods hawking their wares in the market place, Christ is the one I choose to love.

No probs :sunglasses:

Even if (& that’s a big if) it’s a real vision from God to warn us of hell, it’s still doesn’t necessarily rule out universalism. For some it may be necessary (to make sure they are genuine or to purge them or some other reason) to have a prolonged experience of hell (even if they are repentent), before allowing them to leave (similar counter argument used to those who believe the Rich man & Lazarus to be a vision of reality).

However, after watching a few minutes of it, I tend to agree with WE ARE ALL BROTHERS & AllanS that this isn’t a real vision.

Forget people’s NDE’s. Stick with the bible.

I have not watched the video (mainly because I don’t want to waste my time). But going off what you say I can disprove her already based on scripture.

**Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell. (Matthew 10:28)

When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats…then they(the wicked)) will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life. (Matthew 25:31,32,46)

In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side…Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things…(Luke 16:23,25)

They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among all those who have believed. (2 Thessalonians 1:9-10)
**
Notice anything about those ECT verses? In all of them the people either have bodies (body and soul/all the nations/punished on the day He comes) or they can be recognized as in the parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus (meaning they are not ‘formless beings’). So even if scripture taught ECT, which it doesn’t, her story is made up. The people in hell will at least have bodies, not be formless beings.

Well spotted my friend, nice detective work, but it makes me wonder how I missed that! :blush:

Hi Caroleem. Thanks for the thread. I have some thoughts:
Awakening was upfront in saying that she did not watch the vid. and I appreciate that. I wonder how many other posters actually took the time to watch it?
I cannot be judge of her sincerity but I see nothing which would help me conclude that she is being absolutely truthful in every detail. What I DO see is that she makes many conclusions and deductions which have nothing to do with her experience but in every case are exactly what an evangelical audience would want to hear. That is important if she is going to sell to the audience of ‘700 club’.
More importantly, I hear of nothing which would go against the premise of universalism. Let me explain:
Jesus saves us from our worst fears. She experienced her worst fears becoming a reality for her and then was saved from them by the love of Christ. There is absolutely no justification for anyone to conclude that other people in her experience were actually real, or sharing her experience.
I agree entirely with AllanS rhetorical question

She explains this by saying that it was because she said ‘forgive me for doing this’ just before shooting herself, but then contradicts that by reciting the evangelical creed that we are saved by faith (and the sinners prayer which she had not said).
I think it very possible that she DID have some experience and that the experience was God-given but the test of that will not be how many books she sells but rather whether it has changed her for the better. I think that it probably has.

First, she says she became death and fear, and experienced absolute pain and loneliness. Next, she’s locked in a cubicle, yet she can somehow see millions of others in the fire and know their thoughts completely. If I was in absolute pain, I’m not sure I’d be interested in knowing the thoughts of a million other people simultaneously. I’d be too busy screaming. For good measure, we’re told there’s no time in hell… but then (ie. after a time) a big hand comes and whisks her away to heaven. What? I thought she had become death and fear? What’s she become now?

Truly, truly, the woman deserves an Oscar. And with hell being so topical (tropical?) at the moment, the royalty cheque for her book is sure to be *Smokin’. *

Hahaha :laughing: for future reference pilgrim I’m a guy :smiley:

No hard feelings though, I now realize how my name sounds a bit like a girls name. My real name is Daniel btw.

I concur! :slight_smile:

:blush: I’ve no idea why I made that assumption! :blush:
My sincere apologies sir. I’m glad that ‘in Christ there is neither male nor female’.

Because they are good at deceiving… :question:

Well supposedly she was so depressed about her life that she was suicidal, so the mind in that state is never good…

There a thousands of so-called NDE’s where the person claims to be in “hell” but then by either crying out to God or simply by the grace of God, they are taken out. Of course the story they give is because God wants everyone to know that hell is real and these people are chosen by God to have this experience. Like somehow they are “special” to escape the flames and torment of hell, yet everyone else has to be there for eternity. :unamused: Something don’t sound right abut that… :nerd:

True, I’ve that on many hell NDE’s, that as soon as they cried out to God, they were saved out of there…

This could very well be the case. Could also be a vision from satan…

True…

Yep! It could also be that her fears was that nobody could get our of that “hell”…so that is what she perceived it to be…

True.

I told you she appeared to be an actress type! :smiley:

Thanks guys for all your imput, i do feel better about this. But if anyone has any more ideas, feel free to comment. :slight_smile:

I think it’s funny that she presently is not in hell. She dies, goes to hell and is not there now. Is it that God showed mercy on her (I haven’t seen it because I’m not interested in those kinds of things)? It seems to speak of God’s mercy to me.

I know this is an old thread, but I am interested in NDE’s.

I watched only the beginning of this one (I couldn’t stand to listen to her voice anymore, actually). What concerns me is the idea that the voice says “Remove the gun from your head and point it at your chest.” She says “a voice inside my head”. Whose voice? I can certainly imagine her own mind saying that. I am not sure why Satan would say it. But I definitely cannot imagine a merciful God saying, basically, “yeah, go ahead and shoot yourself, just not in the face.” I just don’t think that lines up with anything we ever see him do in scripture. “Go ahead and jump off that cliff, and I’ll show you a vision.” I don’t think so.

Again, I don’t think she directly attributes the voice to God, if I remember rightly, but there is an implication that it is not her own voice or mind.

Ok—I made it thru about 14 minutes of the vid, then I was so angry I had to stop. You see, I actually have a Mental Illness that does involve Medical Depression (and other problems), and in my opinion this person is flat out lying. She is pitching her book to a sucker audience and will probably have a best seller, but a real experience—no way. I doubt she even tried to commit suicide.

Approximately one quarter of people with Mental illnesses that involve Major Depression do wind up committing suicide. They loose the battle with the illness and have become actively suicidal, the final fatal symptom. They do not think about possibly surviving their suicide attempt and they certainly don’t worry about how they will look if they do. This woman is–oh I don’t even have words for it----slandering a whole, deeply suffering population.

Her “testimony” will confirm what many people with MI already believe from past bad expreriences—Christianity is bad for them. She is keeping people from Jesus, and these are some of the people that need to be aware of Him the most.

She is also lying about first responders, no first responder would ask “Do you really want us to take her to the hospital?”. That would be illegal in any state I have every heard of. In many states, only a medical doctor can pronounce death. And no responder would keep his job if he starting making verbal sexual commentary about a near dead patient. He would be reported and fired.

NO medically trained person would give up on an otherwise healthy FIFTEEN year old (the age she says she was) until they had tried everything in the book and a few things from out of it.

If she shot herself, she would have gone from ER to the OR, even if the bullet “missed her heart” it still would have caused massive bleeding in that area and would have had to have been removed. Its major surgury, probably requiring a respirator afterwords and definetly more than a brief stay in ICU.

As to her so-called hell experience—no where in any description of hell I have ever read, do people gain spiritual extra perception. Then God saves her (how CEU of her to put that in her story), gives her a brief glimpse of heaven, and sends her back to warn everyone. He slowly cures her Depression (funny she never mentions having an actual psychiatrist give her the diagnosis) by inspiring her with Bible passages. Give me a break. To fix a brain illness, the brain must be fixed. Mere words, even Biblical ones, won’t do it. There would have had to have been a very physical intervention too.

People, including me, who actually have Major Depression, report they can feel physical symptoms in their brains. I have felt a weird kind of pain, and also jerking sensations when I tried to force myself to become well. That’s why I say a noticable physical intervention would have been needed to cure someone who was really ill enough to be suicidal.

Ok—stopping now. This one just hit all my buttons.

Strangely, one rather common NDE is that of walking through a long tunnel and seeing a light at the end, and then at the end of the tunnel filled with ecstacy. This experience has been common to both Christians and non-Christians who have been near death. I have no idea why there should be such a common NDE for so many people, but I cannot see why it would be any less (or more) valid than that of those who seem to experience visions of excruciating suffering in hell.

Lizabeth,
I see what you mean about this being hurtful to people who do suffer clinical depression. I hadn’t even considered that aspect of the video, even though my own brother died that way. Anyway, I’m sorry you were hurt, and I’m sorry you’ve suffered.

Kelli

Paidion,

I have been intrigued with NDE’s since my daughter died, and that interest was part of my path toward looking into EU. The common experience of the tunnel and light is very appealing

We are here for such a very short time, and for the most part, we live very small lives. Except for Jesus, no one gets out of here without causing a lot of pain to others. Not even Jesus gets out without suffering. It is hard for me to understand how God holds any of it against us. Someone here on the forum has talked about Jesus coming to heal the sick rather than to save us from God’s wrath. I can get behind that, although it still doesn’t explain why we are here in the first place.

One thing I can’t figure out, though, is why Jesus death didn’t cover everyone. Why do people who believe in him while alive on earth not have to suffer any of the correction of hell and people who don’t believe here do have to suffer hell until they believe? Why is his death good enough for one group but not the other? It isn’t as if Christians suddenly stop hurting people.

I am still at the beginnings of my exploration, so I hope I do not offend anyone or lead anyone astray by asking this, but…
Is it possible that Scripture is faulty and that we have the whole hell thing wrong? Why does the NT version of hell seem to be so different from the OT version of hell?

Good news is that my copy of The Inescapable Love of God showed up on my front porch today. yay!

Kelli