AN ESSAY ON MY BELIEFS


#1

I am a “Christian Biblical Universal Transformationist.”
tentmaker.org/articles/savio … tution.htm
See especially the very last paragraph on that link.

I’m convinced that after we have thought the very best thoughts about God, we can be sure that He is even better than that because He is able to do above what we can even think, Ephesians 3:20. And IMHO I cannot think any higher thoughts than universal transformation.

I believe that after our resurrection from the dead God will eventually somehow transform every second of everyone’s suffering into something better that it happened.

That includes both the unexplained and seemingly unjustifiable suffering that we all experience in varying degrees, as well as what the Bible calls “kolasis aionion” which means age-during corrective chastisement that everyone who needs it will experience.

I believe that God will eventually fit every unique individual into His master plan in a positive way that necessitates their unique temporary involvement in evil and suffering that will enable God to manifest, and glorify, and magnify the many facets of His character in a way that uniquely involves that person, and everyone else involved in that person’s life too.

Then, after God has finished using evil and suffering for the reasons why He allowed them to temporarily exist, He will then eradicate them from existence.

I believe that God has both the ability and the intention to save all fallen creatures from everything from which they need to be saved, and He will not fail to do so.

I believe that God’s determination, within the wise counsel of His DECRETIVE will which is that which MUST occur, to eventually rid all of creation from suffering, will in every case, overcome the strongest will that is temporarily opposed to God’s PRECEPTIVE will which is what His creatures OUGHT to do.

I believe the only mistake that I am probably making is in grossly underestimating just how gloriously God will achieve this universal transformation through what Christ accomplished for everyone by His death and resurrection, through the power in the blood of his cross. That is the kind of God that I see in the Bible.

Realizing that he is including everyone without exception, the following quote by universalist Dr. Leslie Weatherhead nicely sums up what I believe. I’ve had it memorized for many years and love to quote it frequently.

“God’s purposes are so vast and glorious, beyond all guessing now, that when they are achieved and consummated, all our sufferings and sorrows of today, even the agonies that nearly break our faith, the disasters that well nigh overwhelm us, shall, seen from that fair country where God’s age long dreams come true, bulk as little as bulk now the pieces of a broken toy upon a nursery floor, over which, thinking that all our little world was in ruins, we cried ourselves to sleep.”


#2

Rodger.

Jesus did not give one peep of the reconciliation of every human being. If UR is true…why didn’t Jesus teach it?


#3

Jesus did teach it.

Click on
richardwaynegarganta.com/Underst … %20One.htm
then, scroll down and click on
#2. How Jesus Handles Being Given Everybody And Everything
which is in the “table of contents”

Also click on
tentmaker.org/articles/unive … -bible.htm
then scroll down and under
A Closer Look at Scripture
read what Matthew, Luke, and John recorded.


#4

Rodger.

I’m not interested in anything that Gary Armirault has to say. I want to know what you know…not Gary Armirault knows… Now, So where does the statement that “God will save all men” occur in the New Testament?

Did Jesus ever say in those very words that “God will save all men?” Find one verse in the gospels where Jesus says literally (without parable) WORD FOR WORD, “God will save all men.” The closest verses that one can construe to signify the salvation of all men follow. However if one looks at them closely (word for word, phrase by phrase, verbatim), one does not find that Jesus ever states that “all men will be saved”. Could it not have been very easy for Jesus to say once and for all that “God will save all men?” That would have ended all arguments on this point. WHY DIDN’T JESUS END THIS ARGUMENT FOR ALL TIME WITH A SIMPLE STATEMENT?

The verse most often used to denote Jesus’ universalist claim is John 12:32:

“And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.”

Drawing all men to himself says nothing about all men being saved. Look at the words literally without interpretation. Nothing is being said here about salvation per se. You can “draw” another person to yourself but the other person may not embrace you. Jesus attempted to draw a rich, young man to himself but what happened in that case? Did that rich, young ruler embrace and follow Jesus? If Jesus is the same today as he was yesterday (another favorite universalist line), will he be as successful today or tomorrow as he was yesterday with the rich, young man? Drawing somebody to yourself does not mean you will be embraced by that person. Otherwise every love beckoning would be successful:


#5

RESPONSE POSTED LATER


#6

Rodger.

I’m not interested in anything that Gary Armirault has to say. I want to know what you know…not Gary Armirault knows… Now, So where does the statement that “God will save all men” occur in the New Testament?

Did Jesus ever say in those very words that “God will save all men?” Find one verse in the gospels where Jesus says literally (without parable) WORD FOR WORD, “God will save all men.” The closest verses that one can construe to signify the salvation of all men follow. However if one looks at them closely (word for word, phrase by phrase, verbatim), one does not find that Jesus ever states that “all men will be saved”. Could it not have been very easy for Jesus to say once and for all that “God will save all men?” That would have ended all arguments on this point. WHY DIDN’T JESUS END THIS ARGUMENT FOR ALL TIME WITH A SIMPLE STATEMENT?

The verse most often used to denote Jesus’ universalist claim is John 12:32:

“And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.”

Drawing all men to himself says nothing about all men being saved. Look at the words literally without interpretation. Nothing is being said here about salvation per se. You can “draw” another person to yourself but the other person may not embrace you. Jesus attempted to draw a rich, young man to himself but what happened in that case? Did that rich, young ruler embrace and follow Jesus? If Jesus is the same today as he was yesterday (another favorite universalist line), will he be as successful today or tomorrow as he was yesterday with the rich, young man? Drawing somebody to yourself does not mean you will be embraced by that person. Otherwise every love beckoning would be successful:


#7

If you had clicked on the link I posted, you would have see that Gary Amirault recorded the scriptures where Jesus taught universal salvation.
click on
tentmaker.org/articles/unive … -bible.htm
then scroll down and under
A Closer Look at Scripture
read what Matthew, Luke, and John recorded.

Now here is the scriptural proof that Jesus taught UR that John Gavazzoni posted on his site at
UNIVERSAL SALVATION UNIVERSITY
richardwaynegarganta.com/universalsalvation.htm

See especially point #2.5

How Jesus Handles Being Given Everybody And Everything

2.1 Remember, the Father’s will is that ALL men be saved. Notice that Christ is to FINISH the Father’s work. The Greek word for finish means to accomplish, to make perfect and complete. John 4:34 “My meat is to do the will of him that sent me and to finish his work.” "Heb 10:7,9 Then I said, “See, I have come–it is written about Me in the volume of the scroll–to do Your will, O God!” He then says, “See, I have come to do Your will. He takes away the first to establish the second.”

2.2 Notice that everybody and everything was given to the Christ. John 3:35 “The Father loves the Son and has given everybody and everything into His hand. John 13:3 Jesus knew that the Father had given everybody and everything into His hands, and that He had come forth from God and was going back to God…" Matthew 11:27 “Everybody and everything has been handed over to Me by My Father…”

2.3 Clearly everybody was given to Christ and Christ finishes God’s work and gives them all eternal life. Also notice eternal life is GIVEN, not offered. Also, memorize Jesus’ description of eternal life. In John 17:3 Jesus’ description of eternal life was, “This is eternal life that they may know and continue growing to know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent." John 17:2 Father, the hour has come; glorify Your Son, that the Son may glorify You even as You [God] gave Him [Jesus] authority over all mankind, that to all whom You have given Him, He gives eternal life.

2.4 God gave everybody to Christ and Christ finishes the Father’s work and fulfills His will by saving them all. All honor and recognition for the salvation of men goes to God Almighty and his Christ! John 6:37-39 “All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. "For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise them up on the last day.”

2.5 It is the Father and His finisher the Christ who has or will draw you in and complete your salvation. “Draw” means to literally drag or reel in. You don’t “find” God, he ‘finds’ you! The church always speaks of “giving your heart to the Lord” but it is the Father and His Christ who gifts you with Salvation by opening your heart, mind, soul and spirit through the mighty working of Holy Spirit! John 6:44, “You’re not in charge here. The Father who sent me is in charge. He draws people to me–that’s the only way you’ll ever come. Only then do I do my finishing work, putting people together, setting them on their feet, ready for the End.” John 6:65 He went on to say, “This is why I told you earlier that no one is capable of coming to me on his own. You get to me only as a gift from the Father.” John 12:32 “If I am lifted up from the earth, I will reel all men in unto Myself." 1 John 4:10 This is the kind of love we are talking about–not that we once upon a time loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as a sacrifice to clear away our sins and the damage they’ve done to our relationship with God. Matthew 11:27 "Everybody and everything has been handed over to Me by My Father; and no one knows the Son except the Father; nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.

2.6 Jesus seeks till he finds the lost one. He then carries it back! Luke 15:4 "What man among you, if he has a hundred sheep and has lost one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the open pasture and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? Luke 19:10 “For the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost.” Also see Matthew 18:11-14.

2.7 Jesus prayed for Universal Salvation. John 17:21 [Jesus praying for all believers] "that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me. In verse 23, Jesus prays that the world will know that the Father sent Jesus. John 11:42, "Father, I know that You always hear Me.” John 10:16 “Other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring; and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold and one shepherd.”

2.8 Jesus, not only offers, but GIVES life to the world. John 6:51 “I am the living bread that came down out of heaven; if anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread also which I will give for the life of the world is My flesh.” John 6:33 “For the bread of God is that which comes down out of heaven, and gives life to the world.”

2.9 Christ is the light of the world - although some don’t see it yet! John 8:12 Then Jesus again spoke to them, saying, “I am the Light of the world; he who follows Me will not walk in the darkness, but will have the Light of life.”

2.10 Rev 1:18 For now, remember these verses. They will be discussed later and in part two. “Do not be afraid; I am the first and the last, and the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades. Rev 20:14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.”

2.11 Even the dead were preached to. Orthodox theology has been dancing around these scriptures for centuries. John 5:25 “Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.” 1 Peter 3:19 “in which also He went and preached the Gospel to the spirits now in prison” and 1 Peter 4:6 “For the Gospel has for this purpose been preached even to those who are dead, that though they are judged in the flesh as men, they may live in the spirit according to the will of God.”

2.12 Christ – the finisher of our faith! John 17:4 “I glorified You on the earth, having accomplished the work which You have given Me to do."

2.13 Death abolished – everybody and everything is being made new. Rev 21:3-5 “And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them, and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away.” And He who sits on the throne said, “Behold, I am making everybody and everything new.” And He said, “Write, for these words are faithful and true.”

2.14 Sinful man was barred from the Tree of Life because God could not allow man to live in a sinful state throughout eternity. The tree of life in this verse is available to the nations and the curse of sin is removed. If eons of people are burning in Hell – then the curse isn’t removed, everyone isn’t being made new, death isn’t abolished and the majority of men are living throughout eternity in a sinful state! Rev 22:2-3 “On either side of the river was the tree of life, bearing twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit every month; and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. There will no longer be any curse; and the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and His bond-servants will serve Him”

2.15 But scripture teaches that Christ knows his sacrifice was successful! Isa 53:11 “As a result of the anguish of His soul, He will see it and be satisfied”

2.16 Jesus clearly didn’t preach the message that the overwhelming majority of the population will burn in hell forever as this scripture shows. John 4:42 "and they were saying to the woman, “It is no longer because of what you said that we believe, for we have heard for ourselves and know that this One is indeed the Savior of the world.”

2.17 The word ‘gracious’ here means, “that which causes joy, pleasure, gratification, favor, acceptance, for a kindness granted or desired. Luke 4:22 "And all were speaking well of Him, and wondering at the gracious words which were falling from His lips; and they were saying, “Is this not Joseph’s son?”

2.18 See Matthew 16:6,12 where Jesus warned about the teachings of the Pharisees and Sadducees who were known at the time to believe in endless torments, religion through fear, prejudice and favoritism. See Matthew 6:25-34 regarding how Jesus taught AGAINST fear of the future. 1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love; instead, perfect love drives out fear, because fear involves punishment. So the one who fears has not reached perfection in love.

2.19 The works of the devil are sin and death. If the majority of people are burning throughout eternity in the second death because of sin, how is death rendered powerless and the works of the devil destroyed? Heb 2:14 “Therefore, since the children share in flesh and blood, He Himself likewise also partook of the same, that through death He might render powerless him who had the power of death, that is, the devil” 1 John 3:8 “The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil.” 1 Peter 3:22 “Now that He has gone into heaven He is at God’s right hand with angels, authorities, and powers subjected to Him.” Eph 4:10 “He who descended is Himself also He who ascended far above all the heavens, so that He might fill everybody and everything.”

2.20 Here Jesus tells the unrepentant Jews they have the Kingdom of God within themselves and they will see him again after they accept the Lord! Meditate on that. Luke 17:20-21 “Now having been questioned by the Pharisees as to when the kingdom of God was coming, He answered the Pharisees and said, The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed; nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or, ‘There it is!’ For behold, the kingdom of God is within you.” Matthew 23:37-39 "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling. "Behold, your house is being left to you desolate! “For I say to you, from now on you will not see Me until you say, ‘BLESSED IS HE WHO COMES IN THE NAME OF THE LORD!’”

2.21 Jesus made clear he was going to take EVERYTHING the devil had. This is an important teaching because standard theology teaches that the devil makes off with the majority of everyone that ever lived. Luke 11:20-22 "But if I cast out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. "When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed. "But when someone stronger than he attacks him and overpowers him, he takes away from him all his armor on which he had relied and distributes his goods. Matthew 12:29 “Or how can anyone enter the strong man’s house and carry off his property, unless he first binds the strong man? And then he will take everything in his house.” Also see Mark 3:27.


#8

THE WORDS OF GARY AMIRAULT THAT AARON IS NOT INTERESTED IN

Others here may be very interested. I sure was! :slight_smile:

In the introduction to his testimony/Scriptural exposition Gary Amirault wrote

“When it comes to the final destination of the wicked, or unrighteous, Christians over the past two millenniums have divided themselves into three beliefs: 1. Eternal Torment, 2. Eternal Death (Annihilationism), and 3. Salvation of the whole world through Jesus Christ. Each of these views can be supported with Scriptures. Having been in all three groups, I know that there are sincere Bible centered believers in all of them. Obviously, all three cannot be true.
**Two of them have to be false.” **

ETERNAL DEATH ANNIHILATION ONE STEP OUT OF HELL ONE STEP SHORT OF GLORY
tentmaker.org/books/EternalDeath.html

THE IRON CURTAIN SYNDROME

When there was an iron curtain, nobody tried to get inside it.
But many people (mostly unsuccessfully) tried escape out from behind it.

In the same way, many who start their Christian lives as eternal tormentors or annihilationists, change their mind and become Christian Biblical Universalists after they examine the evidence that is available.

But I have never heard of anyone who started out being aware of the Biblical evidence proving universal salvation, then changed their mind and embraced eternal hell theology.
Think about it!

Two great links proving Christian Biblical Universalism are
THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD SERIES
godfire.net/eby/saviour_of_the_world.html
And
ABSOLUTE ASSURANCE IN JESUS CHRIST
sigler.org/slagle/absolute.htm


#9

Rodger,
If Aaron provided you with numerous links to articles and essays by defenders to his ECT views, would you be interested enough to be committed to reading them?


#10

Hi Bob. Nice to meet you (I think) :wink:

Having graduated from an ET Bible school (1958-61) with the highest marks possible in doctrine (no boast, just a fact),
I already know all of the ET arguments that Aaron would want to try to convince me of.

So, no Bob, I would not be interested, not even a little, in reading Aaron’s links.

Instead, here is where my interests lie now. :smiley:

THE WRITINGS OF DOZENS OF TEACHERS OF CHRISTIAN BIBLICAL UNIVERSALISM
GOD’S TRUTH FOR TODAY LIBRARY
gtft.org/Library/index1.html
and
IN THE GARDEN
gtft.org/InTheGarden/index.html

Christian Universalism: Universalist Thought Through Church History
Well known Christian church leaders who believed and taught Biblical universalism down through the centuries.
Including a separate list of famous people embracing Christian universalism.
tentmaker.org/tracts/Universalists.html
also see
hopebeyondhell.net/history.php

TWO TREASURE HOUSES OF CHRISTIAN UNIVERSALIST ARTICLES
auburn.edu/~allenkc/articles2.html
tgulcm.tripod.com/cu/univart.html


#11

Perhaps the issue is that Aaron37 is participating on a UR site? If I were to go to an ECT site to tell them how wrong they are, I might find it necessary (and courteous) to read the articles they recommend in order to better address them.

But Rodger brings up another issue–many here have left behind a fully informed belief in ECT and moved on to a belief in UR. We understand that view, and have rejected it. To persuade me to return to that is impossible–having looked at both arguments, I believe myself to have been utterly wrong.

Aaron37 should have some understanding of this attitude. He was formerly a Calvinist, and I’m not sure what exactly he calls himself now, but he believes Calvinism to be very wrong. Aaron, is it possible that you could be convinced to return to your former beliefs? If a calvinist says to you that you’re wrong in your interpretation of scripture, will you say “Oh you’re right, I guess I was wrong to reject it after all.”?

If God wanted to have the whole world fully informed on all his affairs, ideas, nature, values, and plans, so that there could be no confusion, he could have done it. But God’s ways are not our ways. So here we sit “discussing among ourselves what he means” just as Jesus’ disciples discussed his cryptic sayings when he walked the earth. :sunglasses:

Sonia


#12

Sonia.

I suppose you have your own theory to why only 1% of Christianity believe in UR? I guess Jesus wants 99% of his church to not know the secret of post-mortem faith, huh Sonia? Lol.


#13

Bob, more than likely Aaron would want to guide me to the writings of which the following links are UR rebuttals.
It would save everyone’s time if they just read the rebuttal because by doing that they also will have to read the ET arguments at the same time for which the rebuttals were written.

RESPONSES TO CURRENT CHAMPIONS OF ETERNAL TORMENT THEOLOGY

Don Hewey
gtft.org/Library/condon/Question … nswers.htm
saviourofall.org/opposers/HeweyOnAion.html
saviourofall.org/opposers/He … leOne.html
saviourofall.org/opposers/He … leTwo.html
saviourofall.org/opposers/He … Three.html

Eric Landstrom
saviourofall.org/opposers/Landstrom.html
saviourofall.org/opposers/Landstrom2.html
saviourofall.org/opposers/Er … fAion.html
savior-of-all.com:80/aionian.html

Matt Slick
tentmaker.org/articles/matt_ … etalk.html
saviourofall.org/opposers/Exposing.html
scaredofhell.com/CARMmattslickun … uttal.html
indefenceofthecross.blogspot.com … alism.html
city-data.com/forum/christia … slick.html

Tom Logan
saviourofall.org/opposers/To … r1528.html

Dwane
saviourofall.org/opposers/EonLimitGod.html


#14

The Roman Catholic church is by far the largest majority Christian organization in the world.
I suppose, by your reasoning Aaron, we ought to perceive their ecclesiastically approved doctrines as the truth eh? :neutral_face:

Until Martin Luther the church was largely in the dark as to salvation by grace through faith.
Good works and penance purchased our salvation they taught.

I think we should decide for ourselves what the truth is, not because the majority believe it, but instead, because the evidence that is available for us to study convinces us.

I have thorougly studied both sides of the ET versus UR debate and consequently have based my decision on the results of that study.


#15

Rodger.

Christianity is not an organization, Rodger, but a family. The church consists of genuine born again believers not denomination. If you are not born again you are not a child of God.


#16

THE NEW BIRTH CONTRASTED WITH THE NEW CREATION
gtft.org/Library/clayton/The … rasted.htm

The above article explains why I don’t consider myself “born again.”

Even though I am trusting in what Christ has done for me by His death and resurrection, through the power in the blood of His cross, to present me faultless before the presence of His glory with exceeding great joy Jude 24, I am repeatedly told by believers in eternal torment that I am going to spend eternity in hell because I don’t believe I am “born again.”

I take it that what they mean by “born again” is to begin believing that the Bible teaches “eternal torment,” as if the doctrine of eternal torment, not Jesus, is our Savior.

Well folks, that just ain’t ever gonna happen.

Trusting in Jesus for my salvation from everything from which I need to be saved is just going to have to do instead.


#17

Rodger.

You can be born again and be confused of its biblical meaning. Christ came to pay, as man’s substitute, the penalty of Adam’s high treason. The object of his death and resurrection was to free man from Satan’s dominion (Hebrews 2:14) and make it possible for him to receive the life of God (John 1:12). The Holy Spirit comes to impart the nature of God to the spirit of man in the New Birth( John 3:3-8) to make him a New Creature in Christ when we believe and receive salvation.

Think of it like this … when a person believes what Jesus did for them… the Holy Spirit comes to take out the spirit of sin and death( spiritual death) and replaces it with the spirit of life in Christ ( spiritual life) this is the New Birth or regeneration of your spirit. You go from spiritual death to spiritual life by faith. It happens soon as you believe. This is how you are imputed with Christ’s righteousness. You are perfect in your spirit. The real you. Think of it as an exchange…You give Jesus your sin, and he gives you his right standing with God( righteousness) when you take action and believe what Jesus did for you to make him your personal Sin-Substitute. Your declared Not Guilty. Hope this helps.


#18

In my opinion, you are the one who is confused about its biblical meaning.
But you have to read the article to learn why I think so.
THE NEW BIRTH CONTRASTED WITH THE NEW CREATION
gtft.org/Library/clayton/The … rasted.htm


#19

Rodger.

Im not interested in commentaries of other men…Im interested in what Rodger Tutt believes. Please tell me you can think for yourself. Please show me from scripture my error of my biblical interpretation of being born again.


#20

I believe the content of the link does just that.
Rodger Tutt believes the contents of this link is the sriptural truth about the new birth.
Whether or not you read it is up to you.
Other folk on this forum might be interested though.
I’m cool with that. :sunglasses:
THE NEW BIRTH CONTRASTED WITH THE NEW CREATION
gtft.org/Library/clayton/The … rasted.htm