The Evangelical Universalist Forum

An Inferred Argument for Penal Substitution

But if Christ is God, wouldn’t he have experienced the same pain, rage, helplessness, grief (etc.) prior to his crucifixion (e.g., before his incarnation) as he did during it?

God is a unity of distinct persons. We see something of this relationship in families (which is why God hates divorce.)

Suppose I’m suffering in a far country. I phone my wife and tell her my sorrows. Because she loves me, because of the unity that exists between us, she now shares the pain. The children see my pain reflected in her face.

There can be no unity unless there is also a distinction. Only the separate can come together. It takes two to tango (plus we need some chemistry between them.) Unitarianism and pantheism both condemn God to eternal isolation.

Christ the Son shared his Father’s pain. We see it reflected in his face on the cross. Christ is the revelation of the suffering of God at the hands of sinful man. Perhaps this is why he sweated blood in that garden.

It’s certainly a strong motivation to lead a holy life. What can I do today to relieve the suffering of God? How can I bring a smile to his shattered face? Or will I hammer in yet one more nail?

But that doesn’t really answer my question, Allan. If Jesus is the second Person of a triune God, why wouldn’t he have shared the pain, rage, helplessness, grief (etc.) of the Father before his crucificion just as much as you think he did during it? Wouldn’t he at least have shared the Father’s pain before his incarnation, if not after it? And if not, why not? And what about the Holy Spirit? Does he share the Father’s pain as well? If so, has he always shared it, or not? If he hasn’t, why do you think this to be the case?

Christ was crucified before the foundation of the world, says Paul.

The suffering of God at our hands is part of his eternal experience. But so is the joy of the resurrection. And his creative work. His healing. The Eternal is revealed in Christ in Time.