The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Baptist leader considers purgatorial view

For anyone who might be interested. I found this article, and not sure if anyone else might be interested in reading. Roger E. Olson is a evangelical theologian and has a blog on patheos.com here are his thoughts on a protestant purgatorial view.

For some years now I’ve been wrestling with the concept of purgatory and wondering whether evangelical Christians should adopt some version of it. C. S. Lewis held to a version of purgatory while rejecting the classical Roman Catholic view.
Sidebar: Once again, as I write, I am aware that some critics out there may rip what I say out of context (because they have in the past) and publicly accuse me of adopting a Roman Catholic doctrine. I can see the (admittedly small) headline in some state Baptist newspaper now: “Baptist seminary professor Roger Olson headed toward Rome!” Some of you far removed from the “Baptist wars” of the last 25 years (mainly in the South) may think this is paranoia, but you think wrongly. One influential critic invented a quote (about open theism) and attributed it to me and disseminated it to Baptist state newspapers across the South. So, if you are one of “those” please be fair (if you’re capable of it) and explain that my hypothesis of purgatory is just that–a hypothesis for discussion (technically called a theologoumenon) and very different from the Roman Catholic doctrine.
What stimulated this thought process was my intensive study of Christian leaders and theologians of the past in preparation to write The Story of Christian Theology. During that research I discovered things I had never heard or read about great evangelical “heroes” of the past such as Augustine, Luther, Zwingli and Calvin.
In a wonderful little book entitled My Conversation with Martin Luther the late Lutheran theologian Timothy Lull described his imaginary dialogues with Luther in which he discovered that the German reformer had to take classes in paradise about Judaism to correct his anti-semitism.
The question that bothers me is this: How can we picture men (and perhaps some women) who absolutely hated people entering into the joys of paradise without some kind of correction? Of course, as a committed Protestant I cannot imagine paradise or heaven as a place of completion of one’s salvation. But I can imagine a justified person being greeted at the gate by St. Peter (imagery) saying “Hello. Yes, you’re name is in the book. But before entering fully into the joys of this place you’ll need to take a class taught by [so-and-so] and experience correction and reconciliation.” And I can imagine every truly saved person saying “Yes! Of course. Thank you. Let’s get started.” In other words, I don’t envision this “purgatory” as suffering except in the sense that all correction involves some suffering. But for the truly saved person true correction is also a blessing.
Let me use the four evangelical heroes mentioned above as case studies. Augustine clearly despised heretics and called on the empire to eradicate by violence those that would not submit to his church. The heretics in question were the schismatic (as he called them) Donatists. Luther hated Zwingli and the “radicals” as well as (late in life) Jews. When Zwingli was killed in battle defending Zurich Luther said it served him right for holding false views of the Lord’s Supper. We all know about his vicious attacks (in writing) on the peasants, the Anabaptists and Jews.
Zwingli invited Anabaptist leader Balthasar Hubmaier to Zurich for a debate. When Hubmaier arrived Zwingli had him arrested and tortured. During the torture Zwingli stood in the room calling on Hubmaier to recant his “heresies” which he did. (Later, after being released, Hubmaier recanted his recantation.)
Now we come to Calvin. What concerned me last year–the 500th anniversary of Calvin’s birth–was all the hoopla about what a great evangelical hero he was without hardly a word about his condoning the burning of Servetus.
My favorite monthly periodical, Christianity Today, celebrated Calvin’s legacy throughout the year. (One article did mention the Servetus episode.) The editors asked me to write an article about what I disagree the most with in Calvin’s life and theology. I wrote it and mentioned his treatment of Servetus. After submitting it the editors asked me to re-write. The new assignment was to write about what I, as an Arminian, agree with in Calvin’s theology. I was happy to fulfill both assignments. And I understood CT’s reasons for the change: its editorial policy is to remain mostly positive. I gladly wrote about Calvin’s emphasis on the Holy Spirit.
I attended a conference celebrating Calvin’s life and thought at my alma mater–Sioux Falls Seminary. Understandably, none of the presenters (that I heard) mentioned Calvin’s treatment of Servetus or his dictator-like ruling of Geneva. (Yes, yes, I know. He held no civil post in the city. But as its “chief pastor” he was extremely influential over the city council expecially after his return to Geneva.)
What was ironic was that during the conference I was reading the most recent scholarly biography of Calvin: Calvin by Bruce Gordon. Gordon reveals Calvin warts and all. It is by no means the typical evangelical hagiography, but neither is it in any way anti-Calvin. The portions about the Servetus affair are especially interesting. For example, many, if not most, of Calvin’s Reformed colleagues throughout Switzerland and the Rhineland harshly criticized him for it. And he took full responsibility for it even though he preferred beheading over burning and technically the city council, not Calvin, condemned Servetus.
Of course, I knew much about the Servetus affair before reading Gordon’s biography. But most of it was from Reformed hagiographies of Calvin. The Calvin revealed by my research and by Gordon absolutely hated Servetus and others.
Now most evangelicals like to say of Calvin that he was “a child of his times.” Well, not exactly. As I said, even other Reformed theologians and chief pastors criticized him for this medieval act. Burning heretics was gradually becoming a thing of the past in much of Europe–especially in Protestant lands. Exile was the more typical treatment. I wonder if excusing someone’s hateful, vengeful and violent treatment of those with whom they disagree is really excusable just because they lived long ago?
So, with regard to Augustine, Luther, Zwingli and Calvin (among others) I’m faced with a dilemma. Are they in paradise now? Are they enjoying the bliss of being in the presence of Jesus? I am not their judge, but I would like to think so. But that presses me back to considering some concept like purgatory. Lull’s little dialogue book gave me the possible answer. (Remember–I’m talking about a hypothesis and not a new doctrine.)
What’s wrong with a Protestant believing that upon entering paradise a hate-filled Christian leader of the past who condoned torture and even murder (I don’t know what else to call the burning of Servetus even though it was technically legal–we still call “legal” stonings of women in certain countries “murder”) has to take a spiritually therapeutic “class” of correction?
I can imagine (only imagine, you realize!) Zwingli entering the pearly gates (imagery–because there’s no reason to believe paradise has gates!) and being greeted by Hubmaier who says “Ulrich, it’s nice to see you here. I’ve completely forgiven you. But Christ has assigned me as your tutor and guide during your orientation to paradise. Here, sit down, let me offer you some correction about treatment of people with whom you disagree.”
You might wonder–why call that “purgatory?” Well, don’t you suppose (as I do) that Zwingli would view it as a kind of purgatory? That is–as a kind of purgation of his errors and hateful attitudes? Imagine Zwingli having to sit at Hubmaier’s feet and learn from him! Could this be the meaning of 1 Corinthians 3:15?
I have trouble exonerating Augustine, Luther, Zwingli and Calvin of their hate-filled diatribes against and treatment of those they considered heretics. And I think typical evangelical (and other) treatments of them have been too gentle and even sometimes dishonest. Last year I could not “celebrate” the life of the man Calvin. From all that I have learned of him, he was a despicable character filled with hate against many, if not all, who criticized him. With his blessing if not at his urging the city council arrested and jailed Genevans who criticized him. But I could and did celebrate certain aspects of Calvin’s theological contribution–especially his strong emphasis on the Holy Spirit so often overlooked by his contemporary followers.
Purgatory? Well, perhaps that’s not a felicitous name for the phenomenon I am imagining. But I can’t think of a better name right now. C. S. Lewis called it purgatory while distancing his idea of it from the typical Roman Catholic explanations of it. (Although I suspect some contemporary Catholics think of it more along the lines I have outlined here than with the medieval imagery of it. One Catholic priest explained it to my class as a kind of “counseling.”)
Do I really believe in it? Well, that’s another question. I have no particular biblical basis for it, so, no, I don’t exactly believe in it in the same way I believe in the deity of Christ or the resurrection. But I find it the only acceptable alternative, for me, anyway, to thinking of great Christian heroes of the past being in hell.

Some of us here have discussed universalism with Roger on occasion. :slight_smile:

I note that if he did accept the various Biblical pointers we find toward purgatorial discipline, he’d be a verrrry long step farther toward Biblical universalism, too, as the scriptural concepts are closely connected: post-mortem punishment being geared toward bringing people to let go of sins they’re still fondling and won’t yet let go.

It’s always a true pleasure to read stuff from Roger.

He does not view me as a universalist heretic due to my views on salvation.

This was really refreshing to hear because most Conservative Evangelicals I talk to seem utterly unable to distinguish between inclusivism and post-mortem conversions and the dogmatic assertion that everyone will inherit eternal life.

Conservative Evangelicals think in extremely binary terms and are always fervent heresy hunters.

Thanks for your comments. I was hoping to share his article with anyone who could appreciate the profound conclusion Roger is sharing , without reservation. It always makes me :smiley: when a man/ or women are willing to expose a certain widely accepted position, knowing that it could personally cause them ridicule and other repercussions.

Wendy,

I think the only obstacle to a “purgatory” doctrine for a Protestant is any kind of assumption that a certain amt of time their accrues merit or anything. That is, if Calvin is not immediately welcomed by God into Heaven, he doesn’t earn God’s love in purgatory, rather God may shake his finger in Calvin’s face and rebuke him. If Calvin is hard-hearted, then maybe he self-excludes himself, or maybe Calvin feels guilty after this rebuke and his ashamed (for awhile) and doesn’t want to go to Heaven.

However, I think we have to be careful, esp. as universalists, to spotlight any particular sinners as worse than ourselves. Who knows what God will think of us? And would we want to be kept out of Heaven, even if only temporarily, due to our hypocrisy? I think universalism is in many ways a “harder” truth (if it is T) than Calvinism, for it asserts that even the worst people from a human standpoint will be in Heaven, and when we’re tempted to think we’re better than these, we have to remember that, on universalism, God admits everybody, even the “bad” people.

I think you are right that some will have to be corrected that their views weren’t indeed the T. Perhaps, if you lean towards a free-will universalism, people might exclude themselves from Heaven. Yet, univ. is so radical and offensive b/c at bottom it subverts all of our earthly standards of justice and declares that God loves the humanly worst of us as much as the humanly best of us (in fact, on some readings of the Gospel, Jesus may be saying that he loves the humanly worst more than the humanly best). That isn’t to say that there aren’t real differences in the ways people sin, and that some people were/are far worse in many respects than others. We are assuming, too, that a life of sin is somewhat enviable, and that Calvin and perhaps somebody like Stalin, “got away” with something while other people chafed under the yoke of a moral life. I think Jesus teaches that sin springs from unlove, and it may be that many of these “bad” people were in a hell of their own sin during their life, to the extent that purgatory would just be superfluous. If a person indeed had no inkling that what they did was wrong, then I think God would inform them they were deluded, and I think the pain of remorse on learning this could be “purgatorial”, but only in a limited sense. I think, if we are to be universalists, the sour part of the pill is that we have to give up any wish for the afterlife to be a place of remedying earthly injustice (though God will, in fact, being remedying all injustice!) It just won’t be in any kind of partial way - God will show His love everybody equally (though love may involve rebuke, and maybe this is what you mean by “purgatory”) People say that Calvinism is a hard truth b/c it preaches Hell and reprobation, but really I think universalism:its radical and total forgiveness is much, much harder, though universalism is routinely distorted as sentimental.

Please don’t take any of this to mean that I am saying you are Catholic :smiley: Sorry you have had those negative experiences trying to sort out your theology. I guess I am just struggling to see how, to really embrace universalism as equal forgiveness of everybody, how something like purgatory can fit with that, though I know that some of the theological originators of universalism, like Origen, had some sort of purgatory. Maybe you can unpack what you mean, b/c I am assuming you don’t think that, say Calvin, will have to earn God’s love b4 getting into Heaven, for that would, in my view, be somewhat “Catholic”. What is a Protestant purgatory, that emphasizes sola fide, sola gratia, solus Christus?

My view of purgatorial universalism (and I’m open to correction) is that while we are all set free from the power of sin, some of us insist on clinging to that sin (and may not know we’re set free either, for that matter). You know the scene in Lewis’ The Great Divorce where the man clings to his pet lizard (I think it was a lizard . . . symbolic in this case of sex/lust related sin)? He wants to be free, but he also doesn’t want his pet to be destroyed. He doesn’t want to let go of his sin. He’s greatly afraid, for one thing, and he thinks it may kill him if the sin is destroyed. The angel urges him to let it go, and finally persuades him to give permission. This man goes through horrible mental anguish as he struggles to let go of the sin. In the end, the angel kills the lizard, but the human thing – the joie de vivre that it once was, before it was twisted into lust – became a magnificent stallion to serve him and carry him deeper into the new land.

That is to some limited degree the way I see purgatory. It isn’t a “place” to pay for one’s sins, but a “place” to become free from sin itself. On the one hand sin no longer has any power over us because Christ has set us free. On the other hand, we may not yet WANT to be free – to give up that sin. Purgatory is for that – it is for the realization of our freedom in Christ. As to what might be required to set a determined sinner free from his pet sin, I don’t know. I suspect it might involve feeling personally the agonies he has caused to others by his hateful actions – a situation both punitive and curative.

Universalists who don’t believe the happily wicked person suffers for his sins, but that he is instantaneously transformed from sinner to saint, are often dubbed Ultra Universalists. We have one or two here of that persuasion, and some in-between. Most of us are, I think (but maybe I’m wrong) Purgatorial Universalists to one degree or another.

Prince,

Great comments and thoughts. I was excited to see the author of the article to contemplate that just because one may be celebrated for their legacy such as Calvin, the author brought up something that always bothered me about Christianity. The fact that making a profession of faith yet lacking in love for neighbor does not give the free pass to enter a bliss full of rewards and praise. I think what the author is coming to realize is that we ALL have some warts, and somehow we are allowed to see this before we are totally transformed into the image and likeness of our Father in Heaven. I don’t no how protestants would define a purgatorial view, as I do not even think that there is such a doctrine in their camps ? IS there ? I don’t know, but I like all your points and agree 100%. :smiley:

Total agree Cindy. I like your definitions. I don’t see purgatory as part of punishment per say, but as a rehabilatation center to aid in removing the dross. The end result is like Chemo, a painful process, but life and freedom what was holding us back from our true self. Healing, yet painful, yet liberating ! :smiley:

Snipped from Russian Bishop Hilarion:

( I most relate to Eastern Church view of an intermediate state, personally purgatory seems to have a negative reaction when used, just as other words used to define a location separate from paradise ).

Divine Mercy shows us God’s full love, and for that reason, Bishop Hilarion said, St. Isaac “was quite resentful of the widespread opinion that the majority of people will be punished in hell, and only a small group of the chosen will delight in Paradise. He is convinced that, quite the contrary, the majority of people will find themselves in the Kingdom of heaven, and only a few sinners will go to Gehenna, and even they only for the period of time which is necessary for their repentance and remission of sins.”

  • The Eastern Church holds that two states exist — heaven and hell — and that sanctification is more process-orientated. Thus, hell is where this process takes place. We are in the middle of the process of sanctification at the moment of our deaths, the work of holiness is an eternal one, since God’s holiness is limitless and hence forever beyond us. The Western Church speaks of purgatory as a state where the “residual debt” due to sin is “worked off” before the Second Coming. Both realize the truth of the process of becoming holy by God’s holiness, thus the cleansing “state” is temporary."

More From Bishop Hilarion :

He is referring to St. Isaac’s teachings.

“Even worse,” the Bishop said, “is the opinion that God allows people to lead a sinful life on earth in order to punish them eternally after death. This is a blasphemous and perverted understanding of God, a calumny of God.” To the contrary, from the first created angels to the present moment, God’s love drives the universe, which, according to the Bishop, leads to St. Isaac’s most important idea about Divine Mercy: “that the final destiny of the history of the universe must correspond to the majesty of God, and that the final destiny of humans should be worthy of God’s mercifulness.” This majesty may even modify Gehenna or hell itself, he said.

Bishop Hilarion then quoted St. Iassac on “the difficult matter of Gehenna’s torment”:
It is not the way of the compassionate Maker to create rational beings in order to deliver them over mercilessly to unending affliction in punishment for things of which He knew even before they were fashioned … [A]ll the more since the foreplanning of evil and the taking of vengeance are characteristic of the passions of created brings, and do not belong to the Creator. For all this characterizes people who do not know or who are unaware of what they are doing.

The standard objection to this line of thought is that the conception of such a merciful God leads to laxity in people or a loss of the fear of God, the Bishop noted. But, he said, the opposite is true. Saint Isaac believed that knowing the merciful God in this way would cause more love of God in people, not less. When that happens, people will realize “the measureless mercy of the Creator.”

Again, Bishop Hilarion emphasized, if we say otherwise, we attribute to God’s actions; a pettiness and weakness that is ours, not His. We should cease speaking of a God of retribution, Bishop Hilarion said, and focus on God’s “fatherly provision, a wise dispensation, a perfect will which is concerned with the requiting of former things by means of … complete love.”