The Evangelical Universalist Forum

"But who do you say that I am?"

Theology Christology
#1

There are many motifs used in Scripture to describe Yeshua’s personality, presence and purpose – servant, healer, teacher and so forth. If a man asks of you simply, “who is this man Jesus?” (and not “what is salvation?”) how do you tend to respond? I would love to hear your descriptions of who Yeshua is to you. This is a pretty personal exercise, so I’d rather no big blocks of word-for-word citations from Isaiah, John or anyone else from scripture – but then, if you would like to share something that someone else has said, please do.

Also, in Art, Yeshua has consistently been captured in a particular way – as a dreamy white lad, with lovely, silky hair and an excellently manicured beard. But when you picture the Christ in your own mind, how does He look physically? I would love to hear your own description of our Lord. Is He still a babe, a lowly servant, is He still hanging on the cross, bruised and bloody, or is the Divine Light bursting forth from His resurrected face? There is no wrong answer – if you see Him as a slightly baked Italian, please admit it! And please upload pictures. I would dearly love to see them.

#2

Zaccheus had to climb a tree to see him because he (Jesus) was short. He “had no form or appearance that we should desire him”, so he was ugly too. This may also explain why, post resurrection, the disciples didn’t recognise him.

#3

very good question, i’ll have to think a bit. it makes me realise how ill formed my own image of Him is…

#4

I’ve never been asked that question but if I were, I believe that I would say:
He is the manifestation of God in the flesh. The most true expression of Love that we can find.

I find this one much more difficult. Perhaps my mind doesn’t work in that visual way so I’m not sure that I have much of an image of Him at all (although I’ve seen many and been influenced by them).
I definitely don’t see Him as a baby. I even have some problem with this at Christmastime. The real ‘Jesus’, for me, doesn’t manifest until after His baptism by John.
If I try to imagine Him now as I write, then I suppose that the only image I get is similar to the films I have seen - so -if I can ‘home in’ - I suppose His hair is brown rather than black and His skin colour is slightly paler than it really would have been. So I’ve definitely been culturally affected.
I know that some people see Him as black or whatever and I have no problem with that.
For me, He really is a presence rather than anything else and I have relationship with this person whose presence I feel in many different ways. I look forward to seeing Him in physical form one day.

Interesting question. Thank you. I’m interested in your own perspective in due course.

#5

Wow! I’d never interpreted the Zaccheus text in that way. I wonder how many scholars would agree that the ‘short’ refers to Jesus rather than Zaccheus? Quite a thought Allan. Thank you.

#6

As far as I can tell the grammar could be read either way.

However, a tall Zaccheus would be less likely to climb up into a mulberry fig tree in order to see over the crowd. Especially since trees were forbidden by Jewish tradition from being near the roads.

The concept there is that observant Jews were forbidden from entering an impure house; and due to the spreading of branches a tree could count as a house (shelter for sleeping). But people and animals also used trees for relieving their bladders, which would automatically make the area unclean until ritually purified. So in order to keep from violating the Law on this, a tradition had been built up (and was being promoted by the Pharisees) that people should avoid going under the branches of trees as much as possible. There was also the risk of being caught in the branches like Abiathar son of David and hanging cursed from a tree, if riding under low branches!–which no doubt wasn’t much of a risk but we’re talking about a culture where extremely picky traditions were being built up to prevent violation of Torah precisely so that God wouldn’t get mad at them again and refuse to send the Messiah to save them from Roman occupation!

Zaccheus as a tax-collector and collaborator with the Romans wasn’t going to be much worried about that sort of thing (although running on ahead would be a sacrifice of dignity), but it does mean that the angle would be wrong for him to be trying to look down into the crowd at a short person if he wanted to see a significantly shorter Jesus obscured by the crowd. The shallower angle from a tree set back from the road would only work if Jesus was at least average height (although Jesus couldn’t be much more than average height or there wouldn’t have been that much of a problem in the first place!)

This cultural setting is also important because a rabbi would be the very last person whom the crowd would expect to walk under the branches of a tree, much less to walk out of his way off the road to do so. So there’s already a huge cultural shock before they realize Jesus is talking to a guy hanging up in the tree! (Cursed by God!) And that guy is a Roman collaborator!! And Jesus is not only talking friendly with him but is planning to stay in the house of this guy!!!–and eat with him!!!

(Another subtle detail brought out by a harmonization study is that Jesus hadn’t been on the road very long, having only just started from somewhere on the other side of the Jordan. He didn’t have to stay in Jericho overnight, at most it would have only been around lunch.)

Anyway, no the setting does go in favor of Zaccheus being unusually short, not Jesus. Although the setting also indicates that Jesus wasn’t unusually tall for His time, and so would be pretty short by modern North American standards! :slight_smile:

#7

I know with a good amount of awareness that Jesus is of Jewish/Palestinian descent and so has the features of the ethnicity, but given my beliefs of Jesus being God incarnate I am also of the mind that he can change his form as he pleases.

For me though, I still insist on rendering him with blue eyes when ever I consider or paint him. :laughing: I also don’t believe he was ugly, or at the least “unusually ugly” - I don’t think he was necessarily a Greek Adonis either, but by any account I think God insisted on appearing as an average human being of the region and time to deal especially with human beings on a relate-able level.

#8

The fact that Jesus was accepted as a traveling guest synagogue preacher, is also indirect evidence that Jesus was considered relatively good looking in that time and place.

There were several traditional things that a traveling guest synagogue preacher was expected to do as part of a sabbath service, including reading from that day’s portion of the prophets (someone else would read from the Law earlier in the service), delivering a lesson from that day’s portion, and then sitting down in the “teaching seat” afterward for a Q&A session with the audience. But there were two informal rules which a guest preacher filling this role was totally expected to follow:

1.) He had to be attractive to the audience. This meant at least that the audience couldn’t be distracted into rejecting his message by being repulsed by his appearance, although being positively admirable in looks was better because that helped people fulfill the injunction that they ought to rush to the synagogue to hear a message there. No preacher would get a career going without this.

2.) Under no circumstances could he criticize the nation of Israel! The concept here was that the synagogue system had been instituted back during the Babylon captivity for the purpose of consoling Israel, and in Jesus’ day they still considered themselves captive in their own land, thanks to Greek and then Roman Imperial overlords. This was a major motivation behind upgrading the Temple to something beyond Solomon’s day, as well as in being very picky about trying to avoid violating Torah so that God would be impressed enough with their faithfulness to save them from captivity in a new Exodus within their own land (and back from the Diaspora elsewhere to Israel.)

These unwritten traditions were still in force later when a teacher famously complained (passed down into the Talmud) that of course God stopped sending prophets back around the time the synagogue system had been developed: what true prophet had ever not criticized the nation of Israel!? No real prophet could work under these conditions–they were too shallow!

These traditions can also be seen shaping the incident of Jesus preaching at Nazareth in GosLuke 4:14ff. Jesus finishes (Luke skips over the the actual lesson or maybe Jesus skips straight to the QA session) and sits down inviting a discussion over what He had just read and claimed. But the people there are only complimenting themselves about how good a job Jesus their hometown boy is doing!–which Jesus realizes is going to lead to the complaint that He started His circuit ministry elsewhere (in Capernaum, and in Jerusalem) instead of here in His home town. (Thus His reference to a proverb, still recorded in the Talmud, with the moral “physician heal thyself” i.e. “charity starts at home”, which He expected them to start quoting at Him!)

Jesus insults Rule #2 by telling them that Israel wasn’t inherently more worth saving than a pagan woman from the Tyre/Sidon area, or worse a pagan raider commander from Syria!! (And gets mobbed out of town as a result.)

But He apparently passed Rule #1 with flying colors. :slight_smile:

So, no, during His ministry the cultural evidence indicates He wasn’t ugly and was probably considered quite handsome by local standards. (The Samaritan woman at the well in GosJohn is flirting pretty heavily with Him, too, at first. :wink: )

#9

Sooooo…getting back on subject.

I see Jesus as the definition of love in action. One of my favorite stories is when a leper comes to Jesus and says, “If you will, you can make me clean.” And Jesus replies, “I will; be clean.” and touches the leper.

It gives me chills just thinking about it. The heart of God beams out in this, this poor man must have been shunned for so long; isolated away from his loved ones; called unclean and whatever else man could think up; probably considered curse by God. He sees Jesus and falls down before him, begging him for mercy. And Jesus touches the unlovely and behold it is new! That is beauty beyond my comprehension. I can only conclude what the Apostles wrote about Jesus, “He went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil”. From him we have received grace upon grace. I cannot think of a better description of how I see Jesus than what William Barclay says on John 1:16,

#10

I emphasize the teaching and works of Yeshua, so I tend to see Him in His earthly ministry. He is foremost the indignant revolutionary, unable to bear the sight of political and spiritual oppression, He quivers in righteous indignation. But His compassion and softness towards the poor (of all sorts) is active and deep. He is always one with the poor in perfect solidarity, but never lets that get in the way of His unconditional love for all men. Everyone marvels at His strange presence – it is both humble and intimidating. I know the likening might seem blasphemous, but I see Yeshua in Kropotkin (it’s tragic when you can see Yeshua in an atheist, over most Christians – myself included). Oscar Wilde also noticed this likeness, saying Kropotkin was “a man with a soul of that beautiful white Christ which seems coming out of Russia.”

The more prominent image I have of Yeshua is He incarnated. This Yeshua is a tall, fairly handsome man with gritty locks and a long but bushy beard. But his eyes are fierce – frighteningly clear and penetrating whenever accompanied with a frown, but always soft and compassionate with a smile. Fortunately, He tends to smile more :slight_smile: The Psalters sing of a Yeshua whose “eyes are wild with Love…” and I think this captures Him rightly in my mind. He has a toned but slight build with rugged and worn hands and a tanned, worker’s complexion. Though His presence is powerfully intimidating, He almost always approaches with outstretched hands or at the least, on bended knees. In His post- and pre-incarnate state, Yeshua is clothed in a blinding, fiery white gown and hair (much like Gandalf :smiley:) and is difficult to look at for any length of time. I think hearing He was disappointed in you would be the most soul-destroying moment of your existence. And for that, a large part of me dreads seeing the Christ…

#11

:astonished: I tend to think he was more close to just plain ordinary ! no Brad Pitt ! but I don’t think he was ugly either !

#12

When I thought about that bit “by Him all things hold together,” I thought about the nuclei of atoms, how they consist of protons and neutrons and how they hold together with just enough (but not too much) force, how that their volume is considerably less than their mass would allow because of the great compression they’re under. Scientists call this (more or less) the “strong force.” I’m no scientist, but reading about this, I couldn’t find any explanation of what causes this “strong force,” or where the power comes from, or where anyone thinks the power comes from. It’s just there. That’s Jesus. Without Him, it all falls apart. He’s not just some skinny nondescript ex-carpenter who spent three years healing and teaching a lot of people and annoying the authorities enough to get Himself crucified. He is the strong force who holds EVERYTHING together.

He is the Sovereign Firstborn from among the dead; conqueror of death and hell leading His flock through Sheol and out into the true life that He alone can give. He is the invisible God the Lord, YHWH, made manifest to mankind as a human; only one so magnificent and vast could make Himself so small and vulnerable that we could relate to Him and learn from Him and love Him. He is the Peacemaker who brings peace on earth and peace to the universe and all of creation is being made one in and through and with Him.

He is the hero-King who came to ransom His bride by His own blood (ALL of it!) and yet emerged victorious against all odds and contrary to all tenets of warfare. He vanquished His foes not with hatred or show of force, but by allowing Himself to be treated with contempt, spat upon, struck, pierced, tortured to death all for the love of His beloved, and He pulled it off and led captivity captive and made an open show of His foes, triumphing over them in it. That’s what He looks like. That’s Jesus.