"Christians: Defend Christian Universalism—for Charity!"

[Jonny95]

This is an article I came across that was posted yesterday - patheos.com/blogs/atheology/ … r-charity/

My contention, however, is that the language of “eternal punishment,” and other related phrases and concepts used to describe the fate of the wicked/unrighteous through the Biblical texts (and elsewhere in early Jewish and Christian literature), invariably refers either to the unrighteous’ annihilation—a punishment that’s eternal or permanent in effect—or to genuine never-ending torment.
And I think that if what I contend here is true, then this is sufficient to undermine the foundation of Christian universalism—which, again, foresees the end of punishment and an ultimate salvation for all, and not their destruction or truly never-ending punishment. That said, then, the viability of Christian universalism is dependent on its ability to interpret “eternal punishment” in an alternate way here.
The most well-known universalist strategy for doing this is to deny the true force of permanence to the word usually translated as “eternal,” by offering a different explanation and translation of the Greek (or Hebrew) words that underlie this. And this is where my challenge comes in.

In any case, here’s what I’m offering: I’m offering a starting pledge of $100 to whoever can demonstrate that any use of aiōnios in the Old Testament (e.g. in the so-called deuterocanonical literature originally written in Greek: the books of the Maccabees, etc.) or the New Testament can more plausibly be interpreted as “long-but-not-permanent/forever” or “eschatological” than as “permanent” or “everlasting/eternal“—especially if it can reasonably be brought to bear particularly on the issue of afterlife punishment. In fact, I’ll pay $100 to each person who puts forward at least one convincing demonstration of this. And so that this is all for a good cause, let’s say that this money will go to a charity of your choosing.

Anyone fancy it?

[anon47460357]

This sounds like a set-up to me.

There is really no way to convince someone of universalism if he is bound and determined to not be convinced. As Fr. Reginald Foster said, “The world is full of stupid people who are going to live and die with their stupid beliefs. What are you going to do?”

I suspect that down the road this fellow will point at his “offer” of $100 and say, “I’ve offered $100 for this specific proof of universalism, and nobody has claimed his $100. It’s really quite easy, but nobody has done it. Ergo, universalism is false.”

This is not the first time this sort of trick has been offered. For example, James Randi the magician offered prize money that could not possibly be claimed as well.

Anyone with any position could offer prize money to refute it, knowing full well that the money is as safe as can be because the standard for proof will always be just a little higher than any proof offered.

So, sorry, but no. I would not waste time on that sort of monkey-shine.

[Holy-Fool-P-Zombie]

Well, Johnny. I do like Patheos a lot and read most of their articles. The Christians: Defend Christian Universalism—for Charity! is very interesting. And the contest might challenge our bright admins, moderators and contributors here.

Who are the judges

He does pick a panel:

In fact, what I’m going to do is to assemble a small panel of scholars or experts on Biblical Greek, who I’m going to submit all serious proposals to (and if a universalist wants to take part in the selection, to make sure it’s an impartial panel, that’s fine); and I’ll let them be the judge of whether your interpretation of aiōnios is more plausible than the alternative.

But he gives no indication, they have a diverse background.

Are they from different denominations?
Do they have different views on hell (i.e. ECT, Exile, P-Zombie, Annihilation, metaphorical, universalism)?

Or are they all Baptists that believe in ECT?

But he says things like this:

then I’ll instruct the panelists to consider this grounds for reward.

What? You have panelists? Are they the contest judges? But you are giving them direction? What gives

Actually, I would like to see the bright and knowledgeable universalists here - win the contest. Or perhaps have several winners here. After all, if the Cubs can win the Worlds Series and Donald Trump can become president…

Anyway, I had a song for the trump victory. I can share it here - for universalism.

While I watch the English versions, of the French 24 news and BBC news - on PBS. Get a bit of objectivity and world perspective - on Trump’s victory.

How about dedicating a song (one featured on the AMC **Walking Dead **show)

Here are the words, so you can sing along:

We’re on easy street, And it feels so sweet, Cause the world is but a treat, When you’re on easy street

And we’re breaking out the good champagne, We’re sitting pretty on the gravy train, And when we sing every sweet refrain, Right here on easy street

It’s our moment in the sun, And it’s only just begun, It’s time to have a little fun, We’re inviting you to come and see why you should be, On easy street

Yea we got a front row seat, O, to a life that can’t be beat, Right here on easy street, It’s our moment in the sun, And it’s only just begun

It’s time to have a little fun, And we’re inviting you to come, and see why you should be, On easy street

Yea we got a front row seat, O, to a life that can’t be beat, Right here on easy street ,Cause the world is but a treat, When you’re on easy street, 'Cos the world is but a treat, When you’re on easy street

or

youtube.com/watch?v=JoQ4GidQP-k

[davo]

Is this guy seriously for real? He’s so heavily either qualified or disqualified away the boundaries of aiōnios in said “challenge” it would hardly be worth the effort of responding.