The Evangelical Universalist Forum

covering cast over all people

Isa 25:6
The LORD of hosts will prepare a lavish banquet for all peoples on this mountain;
A banquet of aged wine, choice pieces with marrow,
And refined, aged wine.

7And on this mountain He will swallow up the covering which is over all peoples,
Even the veil which is stretched over all nations.

8He will swallow up death for all time,
And the Lord GOD will wipe tears away from all faces,
And He will remove the reproach of His people from all the earth;
For the LORD has spoken.

9And it will be said in that day,
“Behold, this is our God for whom we have waited that He might save us.
This is the LORD for whom we have waited;
Let us rejoice and be glad in His salvation.”

maccekah h4541

  1. a pouring, libation, molten metal, cast image, drink offering
    1a) libation (with covenant sacrifice)
    1b) molten metal, molten image, molten gods
  2. web, covering, veil, woven stuff

[Exd 32:4 NASB] - He took this from their hand, and fashioned it with a graving tool and made it into a molten[4541] calf; and they said, “This is your god, O Israel, who brought you up from the land of Egypt.”
[Deu 27:15 NASB] - ‘Cursed is the man who makes an idol or a molten[4541] image,[4541] an abomination to the LORD, the work of the hands of the craftsman, and sets it up in secret.’ And all the people shall answer and say, ‘Amen.’

This word is translated idol or molten image every other instance except one in Isa 30:1 its covering or taking counsel not of God

The word stretched means woven which is nacak H5259 which is identical to H5258 which is the root for H4541

Here we have the concept of weave which is present in many of the words for idol in Hebrew.
Such as in H5526 cakak

  1. (Qal) to hedge, fence about, shut in
  2. to block, overshadow, screen, stop the approach, shut off, cover
    a) (Qal)
  3. to screen, cover
  4. to cover oneself
  5. protector (participle)
    b) (Hiphil)
  6. to screen, cover
  7. to cover, defecate (euphemism)
  8. (Qal) to cover, lay over
  9. to weave together
    a) (Qal) to weave together
    b) (Pilpel) to weave, weave together

[Exd 25:20 NASB] - "The cherubim shall have their wings spread upward, covering[5526] the mercy seat with their wings and facing one another; the faces of the cherubim are to be turned toward the mercy seat.
[Exd 33:22 NASB] - and it will come about, while My glory is passing by, that I will put you in the cleft of the rock and cover[5526] you with My hand until I have passed by.
[Exd 40:3 NASB] - "You shall place the ark of the testimony there, and you shall screen[5526] the ark with the veil.
[Job 10:11 NASB] - Clothe me with skin and flesh, And knit[5526] me together[5526] with bones and sinews?
[Psa 139:13 NASB] - For You formed my inward parts; You wove[5526] me in my mother’s womb.

Heb 10:20 by a new and living way which He inaugurated for us through the veil, that is, His flesh,

H5520 Cok comes from 5526

  1. thicket, lair, covert, booth

[Psa 27:5 NASB] - For in the day of trouble He will conceal me in His tabernacle[5520]; In the secret place of His tent He will hide me; He will lift me up on a rock.
[Psa 76:2 NASB] - His tabernacle[5520] is in Salem; His dwelling place also is in Zion.

H5521 cukkah comes from H5520 Cok

  1. thicket, covert, booth
    a) thicket
    b) booth (rude or temporary shelter)

[Lev 23:34 NASB] - "Speak to the sons of Israel, saying, 'On the fifteenth of this seventh month is the Feast of Booths[5521] for seven days to the LORD.
[Job 36:29 NASB] - "Can anyone understand the spreading of the** clouds,** The thundering of His pavilion[5521]?
[Amo 9:11 NASB] - "In that day I will raise up the fallen booth[5521] of David, And wall up its breaches; I will also raise up its ruins And rebuild it as in the days of old;

Acts 15:14“Simeon has related how God first concerned Himself about taking from among the Gentiles a people for His name. 15“With this the words of the Prophets agree, just as it is written,

16‘AFTER THESE THINGS I will return,


H4539 macak from H5526

  1. covering, rag, screen
    a) covering
    b) screen (of the tabernacle)

[Exd 40:21 NASB] - He brought the ark into the tabernacle, and set up a veil for the screen,[4539] and screened off the ark of the testimony, just as the LORD had commanded Moses.
[Psa 105:39 NASB] - He spread a cloud for a covering,[4539] And fire to illumine by night.

Luke 21:27 "Then they will see THE SON OF MAN COMING IN A CLOUD with power and great glory.
1 Co 10:2 and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
Jude 1:12 These are the men who are hidden reefs in your love feasts when they feast with you without fear, caring for themselves; clouds without water, carried along by winds; autumn trees without fruit, doubly dead, uprooted;
Heb 12:1 Therefore, since we have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let us also lay aside every encumbrance and the sin which so easily entangles us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us,

2 Co 3: 12Therefore having such a hope, we use great boldness in our speech, 13and are not like Moses, who used to put a veil over his face so that the sons of Israel would not look intently at the end of what was fading away. 14But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains unlifted, because it is removed in Christ. 15But to this day whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their heart; 16but whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a **mirror **the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.
Kaluma G2571 comes from Kalupto G2572

1 Co 13: 12 For now we see in a mirror dimly(in an enigma), but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known.

The word mirror is esoptron, from eis(into) and optanomai (behold something remarkable) Almost every instance of optanomai is of seeing the risen Lord

Rom 8: 1Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. 3For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, 4so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

Luke 24:45 Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures.

apokolupsis G602
[Rom 8:19 NASB] - For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing[602] of the sons of God.
[Rom 16:25 NASB] - Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation[602] of the mystery which has been kept secret for long ages past,
[Eph 3:3 NASB] - that by revelation[602] there was made known to me the mystery, as I wrote before in brief.
[Rev 1:1 NASB] - The Revelation[602] of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place; and He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John,

G602 comes from G601 apokolupto, which is apo+kalupto(G2572)

[Luk 17:30 NASB] - "It will be just the same on the day that the Son of Man is revealed[601].
[Rom 8:18 NASB] - For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed[601] to us.
[Gal 1:16 NASB] - to reveal[601] His Son in me so that I might preach Him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately consult with flesh and blood,
[Eph 3:5 NASB] - which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed[601] to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit;

The unveiling of Jesus Christ is the removal of the covering cast over all people, which is death. Death is swallowed up in victory, by Jesus who overcame death by His death. The tearing of the veil in the temple happened as His flesh was torn. The veil is a woven covering, covered with cherubs. The covering cast over all people is a woven covering. The cherubs cover, the clouds cover, the veil covers, our flesh covers, the tabernacle covers.

1 John 3:2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.

Gen 3:24 So He drove the man out; and at the east of the garden of Eden He stationed the cherubim and the flaming sword (H3858)which turned every direction to guard the way to the tree of life.

Exo 7:11 Then Pharaoh also called for the wise men and the sorcerers, and they also, the magicians of Egypt, did the same with their secret arts (H3858).

Net Bible note on H3858 3 tn The term בְּלַהֲטֵיהֶם (bÿlahatehem) means “by their secret arts”; it is from לוּט (lut, “to enwrap”). The Greek renders the word “by their magic”; Tg. Onq. uses “murmurings” and “whispers,”

Isa 25:7 And on this mountain He will swallow up the covering(H3875) which is cast over(H3874) all peoples, Even the veil which is stretched over all nations.

3875 comes from 3874

At this great feast, rather than death feeding on us, we will feed on it.

Yum. Roasted dragon.

Life, not death, will have the last word. When God’s plan has reached its fulfillment, when our grief and perplexity over the sorrows of the world have been answered, when we all understand that God is worthy of our deepest trust and love, on that happy day, our experiences in this valley of death (which we mistakenly call “life”) will become a source of never-ending strength.

So, redhot, what do you make of the covering over all people? Christian elitism rejects that this covering lies over those who are blinded to the truths of Christianity, that “true” Christians suffer no such blindness. What’s your take?

The body of death that we inhabit is the veil of death. Only when the change comes in an atomos at the last trumpet can we say “and we all with unveiled faces are reflecting the glory of the Lord”. Now while I believe there is an eschaton, this can take Place in us and will take place within us all eventually. This is the revelation of jesus christ that god gave to him to give to his servants. All creation is waiting for the sons of god. Sons are those who bear the image of christ. They are the ones who the last trumpet has sounded for already.

For now we know in part. Anyone who claims full knowledge at this point is misunderstanding the age we are in. Although I believe and hope that this age is ending.

I just re read your question and I may have misread it. I thought you meant christian elitism rejects the covering is over all faces, as in some have perfection now. (if thats not the question ould you rephrase it?) In christ the veils are being removed. But only the fully mature son is the exact imprint of the Father. We are now reflecting from one degree of glory to another. We see an enigma in the mirror (see thru a glass darkly). But then we will see face to face and be known as we know.

I did mean something very close to what you originally thought, sorry if I was unclear. I’ve had dialog with Christians who get miffed pretty quickly if one suggests that Christians exist in spiritual darkness, perhaps not as deeply as those of other religions, but darkness in large part. I believe this is true of all organized religion, it’s our nature to corrupt the pure truth of God. I consider elitist those responses by some Christians which indicate they believe Christians are largely in possession of higher spiritual truths. They believe Christian teaching upholds this (1Cor 2:14, for example). Problem is, human thinking is shot through with subtleties like the principle Jesus presents in Mat 15:8, exemplified somewhat by the old Joe South song, Games People Play (…never sayin what they mean, now, and never meanin what they say…).

The difference between what I said and what you intepreted is the part about having perfection now. No Christian in his or her right mind would assert this. We all know that none are perfect. Because of this, virtually all stop short of claiming perfection.

I was just curious about your personal take on the essence and degree of the covering. Btw, I liked the op so much I copied and pasted into a word doc to keep for future reference.

I have no clue :slight_smile: I had a vision once where I saw all peoples standing with a net that was what looked to be digital blue lines. It was over all people, and the Son was coming just over the horizon, and as the light hit each person they opened their eyes and the veil was burned away from them. Opening the eyes was waking up “on the other side”.

I was in the first person and third person view when I had this vision so I saw it happening to me, while I saw it happening with my own eyes.

I’m glad you liked it buzz. Its sort of a companion to the post “carnal nature and the mark of the beast”, and also a lot of whats in “mythology and the bible”. I have a couple other papers to write on subjects that are also in the same group. Just haven’t had any time in a while. And I don’t actually see the connections yet very clearly in the other papers, but it will be apparent when they are done.