I have been experiencing a Dark night for 2 months now, and has happened three times before. However, the most common trait is a lack of awareness of anything beyond the mind. So naturally I dont feel connected to the true God(And feel like the only real God is impersonal archetypes or some pagan god). The first time this happened was when I got into Fundamentalism, and felt anxious about Eternal Damnation and that God was really like this. So one day I just recovered due to some mystical experience, and a month later learned about Universal Salvation. So I dedicated myself to beliefs that pure reason could fix every problem, and a hope in endless moral progress to justify UR(Many UR believers belief in a long series of ages). Then I went through a second DNOTS when I could not find clear, rational answers or satisfactory answers to theological questions. Then near the end, over the course of a few weeks, I started to accept that the ultimate questions transcend intellectual and scientific explanations. Naturally I became less concerned with answering those big questions, and more laxed views on Evil. Eventually this lead to another DNOTS with anxiety over uncertainty of Gods goodness, and inability to find any concrete proofs. However, I recovered again, after hearing the Ontological Argument, and once again fell into the trap of intellectualism dedicated to studying ontology. However, I have come to realize Ontology cannot give satisfactory answers to questions on matters like Eternity, Heaven, a Personal God, existence itself, Joy, Love, or purpose, and only abstractions(For example, Death is viewed as a mercy because it spares us from becoming Everything in general and nothing in particular). At this point, I feel like life is dry, as ontology and scholastic theology has let me down
There is a book called Dark Night of the Soul by St. John of the Cross. You can probably get it, via your local library (i.e. inter library loan program). It’s great to read, for what you are going through.
Joe, I feel for you because I can relate somewhat to what you may be going through. I think at some point or another we all feel sort of lost. It sounds like you are a thinker, and I know with myself, sometimes we get to thinking too much. As Jesus says in John 5:39 “You search the Scriptures because in them you think you have eternal life.” Ecclesiastes 12:12-13 also says this: “And further , my son, be admonished by these. Of making many books there is no end, and much study is wearisome to the flesh. Let us hear the conclusion to the whole matter: Fear God and keep His commandments, for this is the whole duty of man.” Words in a book are not going to provide all the answers to life. This is like being stuck in a classroom forever and never graduating. At some point we must put down the book and go “get a job”… Don’t worry about the end and how it’s all going to turn out, just open the door step outside and start living. Believe it or not, life is found in the simplest of things such as helping the old lady across the street, having coffee with an old friend, spending time with the family, taking some soup to a sick neighbor, fixing someone’s flat tire, etc. etc. the list goes on and on. The best advice is to follow Jesus and go do.
Now is taking antidepressants bad during the dnots? I have heard that it just masks symptoms. But I know when it happens to me, I get into severe anxiety and depression
Excellent post! The only peace I seem to have is when I quit researching. The more I study, the more confused I am to my own position and the more other positions are viable. That in itself isn’t bad (i’d argue it is good) but at some level you just have to stop and live life.
Gabe, thanks for you comment. 
I believe this is one of the many reasons why God came to earth in the form of a man, to clear up a lot of confusion and make it all very simple for us to understand.
Joe, does your anxiety and depression stem from these thoughts or is it just a mixture of everything, maybe other problems that you are experiencing at the moment? I am not an advocate of medication unless it is absolutely necessary. I think that anti- depressants can be addictive. I know when one gets to thinking too much, you can lose sleep and not eat right. This can add to the mix and cause even more problems.
I would say its just repetitive thoughts about how Time exists and can be a part of Eternity.
While having a well-grounded (and well-rounded) theology or philosophy can be helpful when dealing with depression, it just isn’t really possible to think your way out of a depression, since the depression will be hampering your ability to think coherently at all.
So I agree with the recommendations to stop thinking about it and maybe physically work on other things until the depression is under control.
Having said that, and in reference to a theology being well-rounded: I pretty seriously doubt that ontology can even reach theism vs atheism, much less any particular kinds of theism. It’s important for certain purposes, but despite being about the end-all be-all, it isn’t the end-all be-all of even philosophy much less theology. Basically it establishes that there cannot be multiple independent self-existent facts, and that there cannot be no independent self-existent fact (i.e. there cannot be an infinite regression). Once that’s established, ontological arguments have done their job and other arguments are needed to analyze the characteristics of the Independent Fact.
So don’t feel bad if “ontology” has let you down: it isn’t ontology, it’s people leaning too hard on ontology (the scholastics being a typical example).
I find that no philosophical system can truly understand existence, which has an eternal and temporal element to it, or in another sense doing and being.
However, the paradox seems to shift back and fourth between knowing and not knowing. However, I am beginning to think that true enlightenment is both knowing and ignorant. Something like Socrates wisdom in knowing he was not wise. This also reminds me of apophatic and cataphatic theology.
Joe - since you’re acquainted with some philosophical terminology, you might get - as I did - some real benefit from the book “Love Alone is Credible” by Hans Balthasar.
A short book, but he devotes a couple of good chapters to the Cosmological Reduction and the Anthropological Reduction at the beginning of the book, which really help in centering the discussion.
Just the title of the book is a good centering phrase or ‘mantra’ when one is being buffeted by things mental and emotional.
Used copies at Amazon, also new ones and Kindle downloads.
Hi Joe.
I, like all of us, I suppose, struggle with dark periods, too.
I think we must always remember that the way to God is through Spirit, not the flesh. We need our intellect to understand concepts, vocabulary, etc. Intellect cannot,however, bring us closer to God. It is a vehicle, but, to think of spiritual things we need to ‘be in the Spirit’.
John 3:
1Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a leader of the Jews. 2He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know You are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs You are doing if God were not with him.”
3Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.”a
4“How can a man be born when he is old?” Nicodemus asked. “Can he enter his mother’s womb a second time to be born?”
5Jesus answered “Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6Flesh is born of flesh, but spirit is born of the Spirit. 7Do not be amazed that I said, ‘You must be born again.’ 8The wind blows where it wishes. You hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”
9“How can this be?” Nicodemus asked.
10“You are Israel’s teacher,” Jesus replied, “and do you not understand these things? 11Truly, truly, I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, and yet you people do not accept our testimony.
12If I have told you about earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you about heavenly things? 13No one has ascended into heaven except the One who descended from heaven—the Son of Man.b 14Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15that everyone who believes in Him may have eternal life.
I also think we always need to remember whom we belong to. I believe our only real identity, is with God, in Jesus Christ. Just like Peter when he tried to walk on the water, in the storm, once we take our eyes off of Jesus, we start to sink.
Matthew 14:
22Immediately Jesus made the disciples get into the boat and go on ahead of Him to the other side, while He dismissed the crowds. 23After He had sent them away, He went up on the mountain by Himself to pray. When evening came, He was there alone, 24but the boat was already fara from land, buffeted by the waves because the wind was against it.
25During the fourth watch of the night, Jesus went out to them, walking on the sea. 26When the disciples saw Him walking on the sea, they were terrified. “It’s a ghost!” they said, and cried out in fear.
27But Jesus immediately spoke up: “Take courage! It is I. Do not be afraid.”
28“Lord, if it is You,” Peter replied, “command me to come to You on the water.”
29“Come,” said Jesus.
Then Peter got down out of the boat, walked on the water, and came toward Jesus. 30But when he saw the strength of the wind, he was afraid, and beginning to sink, cried out, “Lord, save me!”
31Immediately Jesus reached out His hand and took hold of Peter. “You of little faith,” He said, “why did you doubt?”
32And when they had climbed back into the boat, the wind died down. 33Then those who were in the boat worshiped Him, saying, “Truly You are the Son of God!”
Another point, I would like to make, is that, we must remember that to be in God’s will, we need to sometimes put aside the things of this world, and choose the ‘good portion’.
Luke 10:
38As they traveled along, Jesus entered a village where a woman named Martha welcomed Him into her home. 39She had a sister named Mary, who sat at the Lord’s feet, listening to His message. 40But Martha was distracted by all the preparations to be made. She came to Jesus and said, “Lord, do You not care that my sister has left me to serve alone? Tell her to help me!”
41“Martha, Martha,” the Lord replied, “you are worried and upset about many things. 42But only one thing is necessary. Mary has chosen the good portion, and it will not be taken away from her.”
Praise Him in the darkness…gratefulness and thanksgiving are very powerful.
Psalm 150
1 Praise the Lord!
Praise God in his sanctuary;
praise him in his mighty heaven!
2 Praise him for his mighty works;
praise his unequaled greatness!
3 Praise him with a blast of the ram’s horn;
praise him with the lyre and harp!
4 Praise him with the tambourine and dancing;
praise him with strings and flutes!
5 Praise him with a clash of cymbals;
praise him with loud clanging cymbals.
6 Let everything that breathes sing praises to the Lord!
Don’t let the cares of the world steal your joy. As the eagle flies above the storm, so God carries us above the chaos and confusion of this world.
John 16:33
“I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.”
I hope some of the above comforts you. These are some of the verses I turn to when the darkness is trying to engulf me.
Be blessed.
D.
Positive aseity (a concept going beyond the mere ontological argument) involves the ultimate self-existent independent fact upon which all reality depends for existence (even itself), actively self-begetting and actively self-begotten (i.e. actively receiving and cooperating with the action of self-begetting).
In other words, if positive aseity is true – and there are arguments in favor of it being true – then at the level of fundamental reality, doing and being are the same thing. Natural temporality would be a lesser and derivative reflection of this ever-ongoing doing, related to and not foreign to the ultimate reality, but substantially different.
Once the ultimate Fact is also recognized or discovered to be rationally active (an argument I’d develop before positive aseity per se), that fits together with positive aseity to solve the is/ought problem (and the Euthyphro Dilemma), too: morality is the ultimate existence in fair-togetherness (righteousness) between persons, specifically in the interpersonal relationship of God self-begetting and God self-begotten which grounds all reality (even the ever-ongoing reality of the Persons of God). Good is good, not because God commands it, and not because God is appealing to a standard of morality other or greater (or lesser!) than Himself, but because God is essentially love and justice.
This has huge conceptual corollaries for universal salvation, too.
Joe, you mention that true enlightenment is both knowing and ignorant. I think this may be the case. Take for example, the thought of death. We know that we are all going to die someday. However, this thought must go to the back of the mind. I remember when I was a kid, when the meaning of death started to really sink in. I walked around in depression for a couple of weeks. I’d just start crying at the drop of a pin. My family couldn’t figure out what was wrong. Finally, I told my aunt and my sister who both said “Yes, but that won’t happen for a long,long time.” At that point, I put the thought to rest and went back to being a happy kid again. We cannot always be wearing our dark glasses, where we see the world as the glass is half empty; nor can we always have the rose colored glasses on, where nothing bad ever happens. People say that we must “live like we are dying.” I believe this is true.
I was also thinking about some deeper matters, like God, Eternity, Paradise, and Personhood. On one hand, we can have some idea or experience, but can never really explain them. Like how can we understand God, who is personal, three in one, without beginning, self existent.
On another hand I was thinking about the Ego and higher consciousness. It seems like the Ego knows the world through clear and precise definitions and form. Where the higher consciousness does not give exact definitions.
Joe, I know exactly where you are coming from, been there, done that. I have spent many a sleepless night on the thought of eternity. I don’t know which is worse, the thought of death or the thought of eternity. Both can scare the crap out of you, especially when people start giving you their versions of what heaven is supposed to be like. I once read a book, I think it was written by Mark Twain. I can’t recall exactly what he said, but it was to something to the effect that if we are all going to be singing and playing harps for all of eternity, then we’d better start practicing now. 
Wouldn’t we get bored after awhile? Then again, maybe not if heaven happens to be one big, humungous library. Now that might keep me busy! 
I finally gave up on thinking about eternity. The way I see it is this: there are a million and one things to do in this world, something for everyone. I never get bored looking at the sunset because every one of them is different. No telling what the afterlife is like, but I’m pretty sure God will keep us occupied.
Personally, I dont believe that Eternity is Endless Time, but more of the fullness of time. I think CS Lewis said somethings to the effect that Eternity is a higher dimension of time, on some more conscious level beyond thought
I dont know if this should go to a separate forum, but you had mentioned that being and doing are the same thing. I was wondering if that can ever be understood intellectually. I have recalled two major philosophies that try to grasp at them in clear terms. Jean Paul Sartres Philosophy was that existence/action preceeded essence/being. So in this sense, being is relative to the flow of time, somewhat like time can make someone young or old. Then in some Ascetic Eastern Schools of thought see the physical universe of doing as Maya or illusion, and being or “Brahman” as the only reality.
I read in a book from Eastern Orthodox Archbishop Lazar Puhalo called “Evidence of things unseen”. He states all we really understand is Surface reality, which if I understand is the understanding of reality we have through sensual and intellectual consciousness, grasped through use of observation. Philosophically speaking, surface reality seems more concrete than ontology or asceity.
Only at the level of God’s ongoing action of self-existence. Being is necessary first for doing, otherwise (including for any actions God does beyond self-existence.)
I’m entirely sure the bishop is wrong about us really understanding nothing other than surface reality – although I can’t say I’m surprised an EOx bishop would go that route, since they lean heavily into negative (apophatic) theology. But, to borrow an example from Lewis (maybe borrowed first from Chesterton), we don’t think 2 + 2 = 4 because we have never caught two oranges and two apples in a box behaving otherwise. We might first learn what 2 + 2 means or involves by such examples – most children do (unless perhaps they are math prodigies) – but our understanding of the principle once we’ve learned it doesn’t depend on inductive expectations of the surface behavior from past experience.
Our ability to understand even surface realities depends on our being able to really understand concepts beyond mere appearances. Otherwise, we all would think a book, for example, or a notepad, only ever has whatever three evident sides (at most) that we can see at once, and we’d be constantly confounded how the object gains and loses sides – and so consistently! – whenever we moved around the object or moved the object around. Those other three sides don’t just pop in and out of existence when we aren’t looking at them.
It would be more accurate, I think, to say almost the opposite! – the only things that we can fully understand are principles, which have no “surface reality” at all; whereas, while we can really understand some (and even many) truths about things with surface reality, we cannot ever understand those things in their totality. Only God can fully understand the notepad I’m occasionally glancing at: its total history in this natural system (and/or in any other system of nature) including in relation to any other persons it ever comes in contact with; its chemical, atomic, and subatomic structures; what was involved in it becoming a notepad from prior material and in ceasing to be a notepad some day; all the principles expressed by the notepad’s existence; and no doubt a nearly infinite number of other realities and truths about that notepad. By His ongoing action keeping it (and its constituents) in existence, God can and does, almost literally, “under-stand” that notepad completely.
I would like the good bishop to define “surface reality”. It could be that he might be correct, depending on his definition. After all, the Critique of Pure Reason by Immanuel Kant, would agree with that. But goes into much more detail, how this is so.
I find that in times of Spiritual Dryness, pride and self righteousness are a great temptation for me, in particular against self righteous behavior. I find I get easily annoyed when people condemn those who sin out of weakness, yet acting in a prideful and degrading manner towards another. This can be anything from constant criticism, scolding, being controlling, or persecution.
I find it hard not to be judgmental towards those who act in a prideful fashion. This has often been passing judgment on a politician pushing for some intrusion on others business, someone being pushy about their religion through being overly preachy, family members pressuring you against your will, bossy coworkers, or strict teachers.